Would Norton Have Stopped Ali In Their 1st Meeting Had It Been 15 Rounds ?

Yeah, Liston said he was laughing, mouth open, at the time Marshall cracked him and broke his jaw - so that lends to one being more prone to a break with the jaw open. That little prerequisite meant that Ali was always going to reside in the high risk category for said injury - LOL.

 

Although you are correct, look at some of his weights in title defenses from, 1965-1967. I think for Liston in May 1965, he was 210 lbs, against Patterson in Nov 1965, he was 210, Chuvalo in March 1966, he was 214 lbs, against Henry Cooper in May 1966, he was 202 lbs, against Brian London in Aug 1966, Ali was 209 lbs. Against Karl Mildenberger in Sept 1966, Ali was 204 lbs, then against Cleveland Williams in Nov 1966, Ali was 213 lbs, against Ernie Terrell in Feb 1967, Ali was 212 and a quarter pounds, finally against Zora Folley in March 1967, Ali was 211 lbs. I do recall Ali was heavier in his comeback fights before, for Norton 1 in 1973, Ali was a bloated 221 lbs, for Norton 2 in Sept 1973, Ali was 212 lbs, he looked fit. The excess weight made him look as though his kidneys were failing him in my opinion.

 

Your weights are very close, often just 1/2 lbs. off, excellent since from memory!
Ali was leaner in his first career, & I recall b4 the start of FOTC the announcer said his weight was "redistributed: although at 215 only barely heavier than his last fights before exile, his upper body looked bigger, a bit more body fat, & so some of his losing his leg speed may have been lost leg muscle.
But I am saying in some fights when he was around 221-lin Manilla 224.5-he looked better.
Because a bit more of it was muscle.
Do you think he looked like his kidneys were kaput in Ali-Frazier 3?

 

Lucky he had otherworldly reflexes that's for sure Pugs.

 

I don't think it's a question about will rather it's a question about withstanding the physical pain inflicted on him. Would he have gone down? Hard to say but Joe Frazier is a great example of fighters with incredible will but have suffered a KO loss simply because he was physically unable to continue.

Ali's career accomplishments have afforded him the benefit of the doubt. However, in that first fight, Norton was the fresher and more spirited fighter in the 12th round and I'm not certain that an extra 3 rounds with a broken jaw would have fared well for Ali. I'm not sure Kenny stops him cold but if a stoppage were to occur it would likely be result from an intervention from the ref who is saving Ali from further and unnecessary punishment.

Given what the implication of a stoppage would entail, I tend to think the ref would be unlikely to step in. So my answer is no, the extra 3 rounds would be brutal as I don't see a momentum change but Ali remains on his feet to lose a lopsided decision.

 

Wasn’t it Ali who said he hit a corner post in the second last round and that broke his jaw? It defiantly wasn’t 10 rounds, happy to be proven wrong.

 

I agree with your post but I do think his kidneys were failing during The Thrilla In Manila in 1975, he looked puffy, I am currently on Dialysis 3 days a week as an outpatient. Between treatments I do get some swelling. I believe that Dr. Ferdie Pacheco stated that he also thought Ali's kidneys were failing, and was against Ali continuing his career.

 

Really?! Are you sure Ali's Dr. said this *before* Manilla?
If so that would be extraordinary.
It is hard to believe he could turn in such a performance-especially setting the HW record for punches landed-& in that heat.
if so, you should start a thread about this Mr. Murrieta!

 

Given that Ali had a broken jaw, it's possible, but it depends on how much gas Norton had left in the tank.

 

Dr. Ferdie Pacheco wanted Muhammad Ali to retire after Ali vs Frazier III, but Don King wanted to make more money, he did not care for Ali's health. I believe that Ali should have retired after battling Joe Frazier for the third and final time.

 

It was in the 11th round, Norton and Futch are correct.
Ali's team lied in order to hype their man.

 

He didn't do that, Norton broke his jaw in the 11th round.

 

Only Ali worshipers buy into that bull****. Like you said, Norton broke his jaw towards the end of the fight.

 

And Ali and his camp are obviously going to claim it was early on, in order to make their man look tougher and to diminish Norton's win.