Sonny Liston's age?

Just wanted to add also, that is a very keen observation re how the “2” in 27 has been written.

The “1” (in the 10 place column) in Lawrence Grayes age 17 appears as if, without lifting pen from paper, stroked down from top to bottom, rounding off with an ever so slight tick stroke up and to the right.

The way the “1” is written looks to be part thereof how the scribe in question writes their “2s” - the only difference being that the scribe starts off with a swan neck stroke but then the remainder of the letter is completed as if writing a “1”.

Also note on the same record sheet, there is an example of a “1” being written in the Unit Place column - and the “1” is completely different - longer from top to bottom, no personal flares, just a simple, easily read, top to bottom stoke. - an unquestionable “1”

What does this all mean? In short? Some peoples handwriting is absolute cr*p.

Perhaps we also need to also shine a Blue Light on the original document, hopefully it won’t reveal anything we’re NOT looking for, - LOL,

 

1. I'm not Tony Galento, the one who made the claim so you can lose the attitude.

2. Liston was not as young as 29 against Patterson. Even going by the source that makes him youngest, he would be 32.

3. You seem to be implying Galento was lying about his age at the time of facing Louis. Galento was born in March of 1910 and fought Louis in July of '39. Even a dumb sack of **** like you can do the math.

 

Excellent observation Pug, the 2 really seems to have been a 2! What do you think Liston's birthyear was out of curiosity's cake?

 

This is the first time we have good *reason* to believe Liston may be older than born in the late 1920's-early 1930's.
I mean that literally-the new evidence presented in this post is great, but ambiguous-so he also may *not* be older.
Assuming what was claimed checks out-which is likely, given the poster-maybe he was older than we hadd good reason to believe until now.

And maybe not.
However, something like Liston's appearance never was nor will be good evidence.
Especially given his hard living, scars, drinking-but some folks look much older or younger than they are anyway.
Someone said he looks youthful in one photo-& there was not much gap between that & older photos.
So besides pictures looking different due to context, light, expression...
Liston could have aged disproportionately in appearance over a few years.

However I am skeptical of 1923, because we should check the known timeline of his life & see if it is plausible.
While certainly possible, it suggests that Liston would have stayed with his insanely abusive Father when well into adulthood-when many (& especially someone with Liston's physical gifts) would stop taking beatings & leave if anything early. From Wikipedia:

1. Tobe Liston inflicted whippings so severe on Sonny that the scars were still visible decades later. "The only thing my old man ever gave me was a beating," Liston said.[14] In 1946, Helen Baskin, along with some of her children, moved to St. Louis to seek factory work.[15] Liston—aged around 13, according to his later reckonings—remained in Arkansas with his father. The following year, Sonny—determined to reunite with his mother and siblings—thrashed the pecans from his brother-in-law's tree and sold them in Forrest City, Arkansas. With the proceeds, he traveled to St. Louis to live with his mother. Liston tried going to school but quickly left after jeers about his illiteracy; the only employment he could obtain was sporadic and exploitative.[7]
2. 
   
3. Liston turned to crime and led a gang of thugs who committed muggings and armed robberies. Because of the shirt he wore during robberies, the St. Louis police called Liston the "Yellow Shirt Bandit." When caught in January 1950, Liston gave his age as 20, while the St. Louis Globe-Democrat reported that he was 22.[7] Convicted and sentenced to five years in the Missouri State Penitentiary, Liston started his prison time on June 1, 1950.[11]

​

So Liston remained with his Father until aged 24? Assuming the dates of what happened when above are correct-is this at all likely?


By the way cigarettes can age you, but more internally-add up all preventable causes of death (except obesity) in the U.S.-all drugs, alcohol, homicide, suicide, accidents, falls: smoking kills more than them together.
Despite the rate of smoking having gone down for years.
Now it seems it is only 12.5% of adults, so maybe recently or soon smoking murders less than all of those causes put together...

Also Galento is not a reliable source. if he was correct that Liston would have been even older than born in 1923. I doubt he was so great at predicting age, & was a terrible person.

The exact age Liston was in any year also depends on what month it is-so unless we know the date he was born, we should be saying he was say something such as he was either 33 or 34 when he fought Clay...Or if born in 1923, 40 or 41.

 

Can I give a politician’s answer? LOL. I previously allowed for as far back as 1928 but not really much if at all earlier than that. Now?, well I might say that 1923 is in the realm of ALL possibility I guess but we now have 3 census sources that don’t agree with one another, with Liston YOB sequentially moving back in time - LOL.

The early mug shot I provided - if you move from that image through all the other photos of Liston through the years you could possibly argue for an exponential ageing process.

But then, Liston was arrested multiple times before actually being jailed in 1950 - I know there were a lot (20?) in the one year 1950 but don’t know if there were any other arrests prior to 1950 - so maybe the mugshot predates 1950 even? Not really sure.

On his twitter account Foreman was asked how old Liston was - Foreman replied that Sonny wasn’t as old as people thought - adding, as if to qualify that opinion, that Liston was still able to box rings around him when he and George sparred.

How about you? What YOB have you settled on or gravitate to the most?

However you slice it, it’s a great discussion piece - a lot of fun - and if it is 1923, that makes a big difference for the view on Liston - particularly re some latter career performances that weren’t flattering but performances that have been incorrectly overweighted to the point of overshadowing his earlier ATG achievements.

It would be good if we could keep all evidence, links etc. and opinions on this one thread for a one stop shop reference location - there’s other good info/links on this site but it’s fragmented over multiple “Liston age” threads.

 

Hmmm, I used to go for 1927/1928 but thought anything earlier was far-fetched. Now anything's on the table. Liston being in his 40s when facing Ali isn't that far-fetched either! As a matter of fact, the aforementioned doctors, (who know more than the internet detectives here) thought it was 50/50!

 

Wow. Can't you read? Galento said he was 29 when he fought Louis.

I said show any woman a photo of Liston and Galento when they challenged for the title and ask which one was 29 (like Galento claimed he was).

Nobody would say Tony.

You throw Galento around like he was an expert at guessing people's ages based on how they looked.

Yet who would look at Galento and think he was 29 based on how he looked?

Lots of people back then were born at home and didn't have birth certificates. If they weren't educated, it was tough to keep track. It happened to one of my grandmothers. She found out as an adult she was a year or two older than she thought she was.

But people weren't off by a decade. Normally, it was a year or two, if at all. Which has always been the case when people actually research Liston, too.

The only people who are confused by this are people who want to be confused.

And the same dolts quote Tony Galento as some expert.

Did Galento think he looked his age?

Have you seen Galento's birth certificate? I'm guessing no.

Galento is the last guy who should be touted as an expert on picking people's ages based on their looks.

I've never seen a sorrier looking 29-year-old pro athlete in my life as Galento. He looked like he was in his late 50s when he claimed to be 29.

 

Anything is on the table?

 

Unfortunately without talking to Sonny there is no way to really know.
Fortunately Paul Gallender coauthor Josie Roase is able to communicate with Sonny Liston from the other side.

F
Josie notes in her Amazon book description:

“What you are about to read is the story of a man who suffered hatred, pain and rejection before, during and after winning the heavyweight championship of the world. Regrettably, the slings and arrows he endured in life continue 46 years after his death. Chances are you don’t care about boxing any more than I do. However, I do care about the Spirit of a human being when passing over into the Light and what happens on that extended journey of life. We will all make that transition from the physical into the non-physical. If you love someone who has harmed others and you worry or wonder if they will ever change, I promise you that they have unlimited potential for redemption, healing and soul evolution in the afterlife. So will you, and so did Charles “Sonny” Liston as you will find out from these writings. Paul Gallender spent thirty years researching the life of Sonny as a labor of love. I met Paul shortly after he submitted his book to his publisher. At the time, I had not heard of Sonny Liston. Less than a month later, on March 10, 2012, I met Sonny as he embraced me from the Spirit Realm. Sonny and I had a past life contract that I would bring his words into the world after he passed on from his most recent life. He told me many things about his life and career that Paul easily verified as accurate. This has been my life’s work and now it is time to bring these gifts into the world.”


Problem solved.

 

No I haven't seen Galento's birth certificate, but I've seen multiple official records

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as well as his official social security record, as well as countless other documents I can't be bothered to provide that ALL say he was born 1910.

On the other hand, we have YOU, a dumb sack of **** that has posted the following.

I wonder what to believe.



"The only people who are confused by this are people who want to be confused."

EVERYONE is confused regarding Liston's age, and everyone who claims otherwise is a liar (no surprise you are)

The 1930, '40, and 50 census, along with Liston's birth certificate, doctor's estimates, police records, and newspaper accounts ALL contradict each other.

Don't ever quote me again, you POS. You're one of the worst members on this forum, and an embarrassment to Wilder fans including myself.

 

Good Lord. In this thread alone you've got Liston as Galento's sparring partner, Galento saying Liston is 40 when he's fighting Patterson because perpetually 29-year-old Galento knew how to guess people's ages ...

Now you think any age is on the table?

Idiot.

Was Liston 32 or 33, who cares?

 

Everything is on the table, according to Swag.

 

You ****ing idiot. Here's what I said "Their are also claims dating back to at least 1963, that Galento used Liston as a sparring partner."
I never said I agreed with him you stupid sack of ****. Before you go around attacking people for their views, it's best to get your facts straight (which is something you've never learned to do).

You and your conspiracies. Can you please give me ONE official source, that Galento was not born in 1910?

That was quite obviously tongue in cheek. I was referring to any year, any of the various sources indicate Liston's birthyear/age was.

Coming from the guy who thought Wilder was going to KO Fury in the first round and thinks he's an ATG

Where is your source indicating he was 32 or 33?

 

Ah yes, Tony Galento used Sonny Liston for a sparring partner. For which fight? Max Baer? Buddy Baer? Lou Nova?


There are new posters on this board. Don't pass around bull**** nonsense like this.

Tony Galento and Sonny Liston weren't sparring partners. Dumbass.

 

Check out the Amazon and read the reviews if need a laugh!
SONNY LISTON In A New Light: With 4 excerpts from Greetings from the Afterlife, By Josie Roase Paperback – February 9, 2017