Wilder’s résumé is aging like a fine wine

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by NEETzschean, Mar 31, 2022.


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  1. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    Agreed.
     
    Oddone, Apr 5, 2022
    Oddone, Apr 5, 2022
    #121
  2. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Who is ready to suffer for Christ (the truth)? Full Member

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    One question.
    Why do you write "résumé" and not "resume"?
     
    ikrasevic, Apr 6, 2022
    ikrasevic, Apr 6, 2022
    #122
  3. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    "Resume" means "to begin again or continue after a pause or interruption", "Résumé" has the grammatically correct diacritics and refers to a CV/record. It annoys some people because using correct diacritics is seen as too venerative.
     
    NEETzschean, Apr 6, 2022
    NEETzschean, Apr 6, 2022
    #123
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  4. Holler

    Holler Doesn't appear to be a paid matchroom PR shill Full Member

    13,126
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    Here at Deontay's vintners,
    We've a varied selection,
    Cherry picked with great care,
    At Shelley Finkel's direction,

    If Chateau Dustin Nicholls,
    Is your choice from our store,
    Just be warned that it's likely,
    To leave you on the floor,

    You'd be safer in choosing,
    A fine aged Malik Scott,
    It puts up no resistance,
    And will trouble you not,

    As you enjoy good wine,
    Then Sir I insist,
    You sit down and check out,
    Wilder's famous wine list,

    1st Ethan Cox, wasn't ranked
    2nd Shannon Gray, wasn't ranked
    3rd Richard Greene Jr, wasn't ranked
    4th Joseph Rabotte, ranked 393rd in the World
    5th Charles Brown, wasn't ranked
    6th Kelsey Arnold, wasn't ranked
    7th Travis Allen, wasn't ranked
    8th Jerry Vaughn, wasn't ranked
    9th Ty Cobb, ranked 399th in the Heavyweight World
    10th Alvaro Morales, wasn't ranked
    11th Dustin Nichols, wasn't ranked
    12th Shannon Caudle, wasn't ranked
    13th Harold Sconiers, wasn't ranked
    14th Dan Sheehan, wasn't ranked
    15th DeAndrey Abron, wasn't ranked
    16th Reggie Pena, wasn't ranked
    17th Damon Reed, ranked 304th in the World
    18th Dominique Alexander, wasn't ranked
    19th Daniel Cota, ranked 489th in the World
    20th David Long, wasn't ranked
    21st Marlon Hayes, ranked 368th in the World
    22nd Jesse Oltmanns, ranked 492th in the World
    23rd Owen Beck, wasn't ranked
    24th Kertson Manswell, ranked 310th in the World
    25th Damon McCreary, ranked 357th in the World
    26th Kelvin Price, wasn't ranked
    27th Matthew Greer, ranked 325th in the World
    28th Audley Harrison, ranked 136th in the World
    29th Siarhei Liakhovich, ranked 43rd in the World
    30th Nicolai Firtha, ranked 121nd in the World
    31st Malik Scott, ranked 86th in the World
    32nd Jason Gavern, ranked 194th in the World
    33rd Bermane Stiverne, ranked 4th in the World
    34th Eric Molina, ranked 37th in the World
    35th Johann Duhaupas, ranked 34th in the World
    36th Artur Szpilka, ranked 24th in the World
    37th Chris Arreola, ranked 43rd in the World
    38th Gerald Washington ranked 41st in the World
    39th Bermane Stiverne “inactive for two years and UNRANKED at time of fight"
    40th Luis Ortiz - ranked 6th (39 years old may not have been medically fit to fight)
    41st Tyson Fury - artificially thrown back into rankings after 3 years single handedly supporting the Colombian economy.
     
    Holler, Apr 6, 2022
    Holler, Apr 6, 2022
    #124
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  5. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Whose rankings are these? And why are these rankings more relevant that actual performances? Was Charles Martin better than Usyk just because he was "higher ranked" when AJ fought him?

    Your critique also falls short because as has been documented, many "reputable" fighters went on to struggle with these mutual Wilder opponents. Liakhovich and Arreola may have been "ranked" even lower when they fought Ruiz, yet they gave him tough fights regardless. Morales was "unranked", yet a number of better known fighters (Mitchell x2, Ruiz, Bryan, Scott, Martin) couldn't put a dent in him and often got gift decisions.

    Kelvin Price was apparently "unranked" but he was 13-0 with a win over 11-0 Tor Hamer 2.5 years prior. Why would an undefeated Price in 3 be a less impressive or highly rated win than journeyman Kevin Johnson, who lost to Hamer while in his prime?

    Kertson Manswell was 310th ranked in the world. Terrible! Wilder should get no credit for blowing him out in a round, nor Stiverne for doing it in two. But if Manswell was really that atrocious, why did a 33 year old former world champ Chagaev (one of Wlad's best opponents apparently) go the 8 round distance with him? Why was Povetkin WBA regular challenger Boswell also unable to get rid of him over 10?

    Wilder gained notoriety even before he fought Stiverne because he was typically beating these opponents more impressively than his rival contenders, on top of his success in the amateurs after very little boxing experience and his performances in the training camps of Wlad, Haye, Adamek, Thompson etc.

    I didn't mention Scott because he came to take a dive, like Martin and Molina for AJ. I also wasn't going through Wilder's entire record: he did fight plenty of stiffs but considering his late start and short amateur career, it was the right way to build him. Andy Ruiz had been boxing since 6 years old with 110 amateur bouts, yet his first 29 opponents were weaker than Wilder's first 32 and he struggled far more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
    NEETzschean, Apr 6, 2022
    NEETzschean, Apr 6, 2022
    #125
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Vitali does have a weak resume. But he was unlucky with injuries and he had four years out of action before coming back. He was also desperately unlucky against the likes of Lewis, where he was winning the fight until the doctor stopped it. Lennox then promised a rematch before changing his mind and retiring. Despite having an overall poor resume, Vitali was clearly on another level to Wilder.


    You have an obsession with the Ruiz-Arreola fight.

    Again, Ruiz hadn’t fought in 18 months.

    Arreola doing better than expected doesn’t mean anything.


    No, I’m not ignorant of Wilder’s style.

    He is a very explosive, unpredictable fighter with great power.

    He’s very exciting to watch.

    He’s also very flawed technically, but has improved over the last few years.


    Stiverne wouldn’t have had a chance of beating AJ, and neither would Duhaupas.

    Get real.

    Apart from catching Helenius with a great shot, he’s been a career Euro level fighter.

    He’s done nothing.

    He’d never have beaten AJ.

    You are kidding yourself.


    You can say that Ruiz exposed AJ, but neither Stiverne or Duhaupas possess Ruiz’s hand speed and overall mobility/ability.
     
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    #126
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  7. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Because he won the rest of the rounds.
     
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    #127
    Mitch87 likes this.
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Apply the relevant context and it’s easily refuted.


    Look at the lengths that you’ve gone to on this thread and your other one.

    You take away points from AJ for losing, but you then bizarrely AWARD points to Wilder for also losing.


    That right there tells us that both threads are complete garbage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    #128
    Mitch87 likes this.
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ha!

    This is awesome.
     
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    #129
    cross_trainer likes this.
  10. hobby rider

    hobby rider Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not sure if it was this thread or another one but he was going on about how AJ feasts on old fighters, he then proceeded to produce some stats which showed that Wilder actually faced older opposition. It was hilarious.
     
    hobby rider, Apr 9, 2022
    hobby rider, Apr 9, 2022
    #130
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  11. vargasfan1985

    vargasfan1985 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I can’t even lol
     
    vargasfan1985, Apr 9, 2022
    vargasfan1985, Apr 9, 2022
    #131
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  12. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    "...Vitali was clearly on another level to Wilder".

    He was a better technical boxer than Wilder but "clearly on another level" as an overall fighter is a stretch. In terms of power for example, Wilder is several levels above Vitali; the kind of power that would have iced that version of Lewis early.

    "Again, Ruiz hadn’t fought in 18 months"

    Arreola hadn't fought in 21 months. You can make these excuses if you like but what's the excuse for failing to KO all those journeyman? What's the excuse for having competitive fights with washed up Liakhovich and Kevin Johnson?

    "Apart from catching Helenius with a great shot"

    That's not an accurate summary of the fight at all. Duhaupas kept pressuring Helenius and hitting him with shots until Helenius was gassed and became demoralised, then he finished him with a right hand in the 6th. It's conceivable that he could have done the same to AJ. My money would be on AJ but you can't count out a big, tough, determined, Euro level pressure fighter against a guy with AJ's vulnerabilities. Stiverne has much more power and better skills than Duhaupas, AJ would have been at serious risk of getting decisively countered if he was aggressive. The same would have been true to an even greater extent against Ortiz, which is why the fight never happened.
     
    NEETzschean, Apr 9, 2022
    NEETzschean, Apr 9, 2022
    #132
  13. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    "You take away points from AJ for losing, but you then bizarrely AWARD points to Wilder for also losing"

    You lose a lot more points for getting dropped 4 times and quitting against Andy Ruiz in the 7th than you do for dropping Tyson Fury twice and going out on your shield in the 11th. Everyone understands the difference here.
     
    NEETzschean, Apr 9, 2022
    NEETzschean, Apr 9, 2022
    #133
  14. Belfast

    Belfast Member Full Member

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    Nobodies resume has aged as badly as Wilders
     
    Belfast, Apr 9, 2022
    Belfast, Apr 9, 2022
    #134
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    It’s not a stretch at all.

    Vitali was on another level entirely to Wilder.

    The only reason he didn’t replicate his title defences is due to unfortunate circumstances.

    Yes, Wilder has awesome power. But when he can’t land it, he’s extremely vulnerable.


    Again, stop with the Arreola obsession.

    Look how desperate you are.

    It’s embarrassing.

    Yes, neither of them had fought in a long time.

    So what?

    It was potentially Arreola’s last hurrah.

    For Ruiz, it was just a comeback fight.

    You’re trying to paint a picture where Ruiz went life and death with him, yet he clearly didn’t.

    It also doesn’t matter if Stiverne beat Arreola more decisively.

    Lennox Lewis beat Ruddock more decisively than Tyson.

    Tyson beat Bruno easier and quicker across 2 fights than what Lewis did in 1 fight.

    There’s countless examples to give.

    Every fighter matches up differently and there’s also many other factors to look at too.


    Regarding Duhaupas, I was stating that apart from his win over Helenius, he was a career Euro level fighter.

    You’ve got to be crazy if you’d have given him a good chance of beating AJ.

    You’re just desperately hyping Wilder’s opposition in order to make him look better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    Loudon, Apr 9, 2022
    #135
    Wizbit1013 likes this.
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