AJ’s résumé has aged like an egg sandwich

Wizbit1013 · Apr 8, 2022

NEETzschean said: ↑

The only reason that you don't regard Ruiz as a PBC bum (and PBC themselves didn't rate him that highly) was that he dropped AJ four times and made him quit. Aside from destroy AJ, he's had a close fight with Chisora-level Parker and struggled with washed up versions of Liakhovich, Kevin and Arreola. Losing to Ruiz in the manner that he did was a horrible exposure of AJ's punch resistance, his stamina, his confidence and his courage. All of AJ's fights since have been safety-first performances against light punchers. Ruiz partied and didn't train for the rematch, came in 35 lbs heavier than he was against a mid-late 40's Ray Austin 3.5 years prior and AJ spent the 12 rounds running from that stubby, near-stationary blob. AJ deserves some credit for taking and winning the immediate rematch but it was not an impressive performance, represented a sea-change in his mentality and would have done little to vanquish his demons.

Neither Wilder or AJ had demonstrated much willingness to travel. Wilder had fought in territories/states surrounding America and traveled once to Britain to starch British hypejob Audley. AJ had never traveled as a pro, much less to enemy territory, and lost badly as soon as he did.

There's a reason why AJ fought Martin, 41+, 17 months inactive Wlad and Parker for belts instead of Wilder: all of these were perceived as relatively soft touches (Wlad less so but it was an important fight to legitimise AJ). They wanted to fight AJ for the extra money and status on offer, why fight Wilder for equal or more risk but less reward? Also, this served to narrow the experience deficit between AJ and Wilder while aging the 4 years older Wilder out, hopefully taking the edge of his speed and explosiveness. There was the example of Mayweather-Pacquiao, where a "super-fight" could be left to marinate for several years so that greater rewards could be derived long-term. And ideally, Wilder would slip up, hopefully against AJ's bodyguard Whyte, which would allow Hearn to make undisputed and win either way. Why fight dangerous punchers like Ortiz or Wilder when you can fight the Takam's, Parker's and Pulev's of the world; light punchers and massive underdogs, while still selling out Wembley? Getting the other belts was thought to strengthen their hand at the negotiating table and help them in the PR battle ("Wilder hasn't fought Charles Martin or Joseph Parker in unifications because he's scared of them"). Ignore the fact that Molina and Breazeale were mutual defences with Wilder and two of Wilder's absolute weakest.

If Hearn/AJ really wanted the fight they would have offered 50-50, as Wlad did to Haye. They would have taken out the Matchroom standard one way rematch clause (as per AJ-Ruiz, Whyte-Povetkin and AJ-Usyk) as well. But this was not going to be on the table until Wilder had beaten Fury or Fury had beaten Wilder, either way it would remove a dangerous rival from the equation.

An in-shape Ruiz struggled to beat a 21 months inactive and 5 years older Arreola than the one that Wilder's critics universally derided as "shot" when Wilder schooled him with his left hand and stopped him in 8. By my estimation, 35 year old Arreola was Wilder's 7th best defence. This suggests that the likes of Washington, Szpilka and Duhuapas, all of which are stylistically more difficult for Ruiz than Arreola, would have had a good chance of beating him. Stiverne and Ortiz would have probably schooled/smashed Ruiz and would have had a good shot on AJ too.[/QUOTE

Stiverne lol

Go back to the mental ward
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Loudon · Apr 8, 2022

NEETzschean said: ↑

15th fight. Whyte - A-side decision against Chisora, sparked in 5 by a shot Povetkin in Britain

Title. Martin - came to take a dive

1. Breazeale - KO’d in 1 by Wilder, schooled by Wallin in America

2. Molina - came to take a dive, as became his modus operandi

3. Wlad - retired after

4. Takam - legitimately KO’d in 8 by Chisora the fight after, stopped in 6 by Joyce

5. Parker - got dropped by and lost to Whyte, A-side decision against Chisora, who also dropped him

1. Ruiz - in good shape (by his standards) but got dropped by and had a hard fight over 12 with a 40+, 21 months inactive/retired, coming off a loss Arreola

2. Pulev - virtually retired after

The partial exceptions:

13th fight. Kevin - went the distance with Dubois and Hrgovic 3.5 years later but the win also aged well at the expense of Pulev and Ruiz

6. Povetkin - aged well at the expense of Whyte and Parker
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Ha!

Keep Boxrecing.

Keep spinning those stats.

It won’t change the following:

AJ has better wins than Wilder.

MarkusFlorez99 · Apr 8, 2022

NEETzscheans Fury and Wilder dickriding syndrome is getting worse by the day

hobby rider · Apr 8, 2022

MarkusFlorez99 said: ↑

NEETzscheans Fury and Wilder dickriding syndrome is getting worse by the day
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If Neet had his own way he would be airtight.

MarkusFlorez99 · Apr 8, 2022

hobby rider said: ↑

If Neet had his own way he would be airtight.
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Loudon · Apr 8, 2022

NEETzschean said: ↑

It's ironic because one of those same sheep (not JT) liked your post lol

What are all of the factors that should be taken into consideration when assessing the quality of a record? Because in many important respects, Wilder has the superior record and will probably be remembered as the better fighter. And regardless of the overall quality of AJ or Wilder's records, there is no question that AJ's has aged poorly while Wilder's has aged well.

AJ's loss and win over Ruiz isn't being directly critiqued in my op, it's about how they aged. EVERYBODY expected the in-shape Ruiz to stop Arreola without any difficulty whatsoever. They weren't expecting there to be serious questions after the fight whether a prime Arreola would have beaten him lol.

The Usyk loss hasn't yet aged poorly, it all depends on what Usyk goes on to do from here. If he clearly loses to Fury and then retires, the Usyk loss (and AJ's extra loss to Usyk coming up) will have aged poorly.
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You are absolutely deluded.

Wilder doesn’t have the superior record, and nobody will ever remember him being a better fighter than AJ.

Everybody expected an in-shape Ruiz to stop Arreola?

1. Ruiz wasn’t in shape.

2. It was his first fight in about 18 months.

3. Not everybody expected a knockout.

chacal · Apr 8, 2022

Loudon said: ↑

You are absolutely deluded.

Wilder doesn’t have the superior record, and nobody will ever remember him being a better fighter than AJ.

Everybody expected an in-shape Ruiz to stop Arreola?

1. Ruiz wasn’t in shape.

2. It was his first fight in about 18 months.

3. Not everybody expected a knockout.
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I wouldnt put my money on AJ in a wilder vs AJ fight, tbh. They both will connect hard punches, and only one of them has a heart.

But, yes, I guess you are right. Nobody will remember wilder a better fighter than joshua.

sid · Apr 8, 2022

When talking resume's you should also look @ other HW's.Lol has anyone got a better resume @ this point in HW.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

NEETzschean · Apr 8, 2022

JDub said: ↑

Oh shucks! Got me good there.

Nobody is buying this garbage. Even you don't really believe it.
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Check the bookmakers odds if you think AJ's fights were really "competitive matchups" against "top 10 opposition". Most of them either didn't come to win or weren't thought to have more than a very slim puncher's chance. And now we know that nearly all of them were Chisora-level or below.

NEETzschean · Apr 8, 2022

Loudon said: ↑

You are absolutely deluded.

Wilder doesn’t have the superior record, and nobody will ever remember him being a better fighter than AJ.

Everybody expected an in-shape Ruiz to stop Arreola?

1. Ruiz wasn’t in shape.

2. It was his first fight in about 18 months.

3. Not everybody expected a knockout.
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"Wilder doesn’t have the superior record"

What are all the criteria for assessing a record? How many points do you lose for being knocked down 4 times and quitting against a 25/1 underdog? How many points do you lose for being the first elite SHW to be conclusively defeated by a cruiserweight? How many points do you gain for knocking out every man you faced in 45 fights who wasn't a reigning world champion? How many points do you gain from being a 5 year reigning champion with 10 consecutive defences and fighting a historic trilogy with the No.1 ranked heavyweight champion? It's not even a matter of people "remembering" Wilder as a better fighter, most think that Wilder would beat AJ now.

By Ruiz's standards the mid 250's is in shape. Better shape than he was in either fight than AJ, especially the rematch.

40+ "beyond shot" Arreola had been inactive even longer than Ruiz, so it's not a good excuse.

"Everybody" is hyperbole but not excessive. 5/6 were picking Ruiz by stoppage, nearly all the rest points, very few expected a difficult fight. Ruiz was something like a 1/20 favourite, as he would have been against Liakhovich and Kevin [url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/andrés-ponce-ruiz-jr-vs-cristóbal-arreola.665484/[/url]

NEETzschean · Apr 8, 2022

sid said: ↑

When talking resume's you should also look @ other HW's.Lol has anyone got a better resume @ this point in HW.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
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Fury, Usyk, Wilder. AJ's performances have aged poorly.

Kiwi Casual · Apr 8, 2022

NEETzschean said: ↑

Check the bookmakers odds if you think AJ's fights were really "competitive matchups" against "top 10 opposition". Most of them either didn't come to win or weren't thought to have more than a very slim puncher's chance. And now we know that nearly all of them were Chisora-level or below.
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Ever occur to you that he's the favourite because he's:

1: Simply that good.
2: Has a larger fan base who are willing to bet bigger pools of money, influencing the odds bookmakers offer as not to go bankrupt.

hobby rider · Apr 8, 2022

NEETzschean said: ↑

"Wilder doesn’t have the superior record"

What are all the criteria for assessing a record? How many points do you lose for being knocked down 4 times and quitting against a 25/1 underdog? How many points do you lose for being the first elite SHW to be conclusively defeated by a cruiserweight? How many points do you gain for knocking out every man you faced in 45 fights who wasn't a reigning world champion? How many points do you gain from being a 5 year reigning champion with 10 consecutive defences and fighting a historic trilogy with the No.1 ranked heavyweight champion?

By Ruiz's standards the mid 250's is in shape. Better shape than he was in either fight than AJ, especially the rematch.

40+ "beyond shot" Arreola had been inactive even longer than Ruiz, so it's not a good excuse.

"Everybody" is hyperbole, just as your use of "nobody" is. 5/6 were picking Ruiz by stoppage, very few expected a difficult fight. Ruiz was something like a 1/20 favourite, as he would have been against Liakhovich and Kevin [url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/andrés-ponce-ruiz-jr-vs-cristóbal-arreola.665484/[/url]
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How on earth do you “gain points” from being part of a historic trilogy when you lost two of the fights, got absolutely battered in one of them and knocked out in another and scraped a draw against someone who had spent the last two years getting wasted is beyond me.

That’s before you even get into the pathetic excuses he made.

Decker · Apr 8, 2022

The OP NEETzchean makes some good points.
AJs record is not aging very well. However I think his record/resume is still better then Wilders.
Besides beating old Ortiz, what had Wilder done? Gone 0-2-1, more like 0-3 vs. Fury?

I'd like to see AJ vs. WIlder, but I'm beginning to think it will never happen. Too many of these HWs are mostly "fighting" in social media

JDub · Apr 9, 2022

NEETzschean said: ↑

Check the bookmakers odds if you think AJ's fights were really "competitive matchups" against "top 10 opposition". Most of them either didn't come to win or weren't thought to have more than a very slim puncher's chance. And now we know that nearly all of them were Chisora-level or below.
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Bookmakers?! Lol, ok you’re trolling.

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AJ’s résumé has aged like an egg sandwich

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