Why Was Muhammad Ali Disrespectful To Joe Louis, But Respectful Of Rocky Marciano

Probably Ali felt that Joe Louis was an Uncle Tom, and that part disgusted him.

 

P

Page, Berbick, and Pinklon Thomas were champions in their era. I reckon a prime Bugner could beat them.

 

In the fullness of time Ali's views on race softened a lot. He said a man who sees the world at 50 the way he saw it at 20 didn't learn a thing.

 

Moorer too I reckon.

 

Moorer is the best of the four, do you think?

 

Page was the most talented but Moorer made the best of what he had.

 

I think before Ali fought Wepner he told him to call him the Nword to build up the gate. Wepner said I can't do that. I have Black friends and sparring partners.

 

Louis played by the rules of segregated society back then. I'd think that made Ali think less of him.

Jack Johnson would have been Ali's type to bud up with.

 

He wasn't consistently respectful or disrespectful to either of them.

He admired both of them, but in both cases there was a clash of egos.

In both cases there wee skirmishes, but it eventually resolved itself to mutual respect.

 

All really great posts. Muhammad Ali was using his gift of gab and the media to downplay legendary champions Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano but deep down inside admired them. Ali did admire Sonny Liston and Floyd Patterson much the same way.

 

Do people forget Ali and Louis had literal opposite views when it came to the US government and what the black community should do about their rights? It also didn't help that both were very prideful and Louis would make smug comments about him.

Rocky did call him Clay and was critical of him, but eventually him and Ali became closer and apparently had planned to do a tour together to speak on racial issues. As for white opponents in general, I think Quarry was the only white opponent to try and talk trash with Ali and Ali responded with trash talk of his own. It wasn't that he was letting them off the hook and only had it out for black opponents. In regards to white champions before him, Ali didn't think much of Dempsey and dismissed him as a crude street brawler.

The primary reason Patterson, Terrel, and Louis stood out so much was because at the time they were very pro establishment and has drastically different political views. Ali had lots of praise for Patterson when it came to just skill/boxing ability. Ali and Norton never had bad blood and for the most part it was either strictly business or they were sometimes even friendly and playful with each other (Ali visited him after the accident and admitted Norton won their 3rd fight). Ali and Holmes were very close, Holmes even cried after their fight and they continued to be close. All the trash talk against Holmes was just to sell tickets.

 

Really very good post.

 

Ali was wrong to say that. Ali at the time was young and mixed up with a group that poisoned his thinking. Joe Louis definitely wasn't a Tom. He sacrificed some things personally so he could get an opportunity to fight for the title. Even bigger than that other black fighters coming along after wouldnt be frozen out for another 30 years.
Joe Louis was a hero. Ali benefited from Joe's unselfish character.

 

Agreed and very well said. Joe was a necessary foundation from which Ali could leap and find an even more individual voice.

It might seem ironic or contrary, but in their time and in their own way, for black representation, a Joe Louis was needed every bit as much as a Muhammad Ali. And without debating it as a separate issue, Ali didn’t always walk the grandiose talk anyway.

It would’ve been far better for both to recognise and acknowledge their separate roles, personalities, contributions and contexts.

It would’ve been a far stronger message for them to be united rather than divisive between themselves in any way. As key figures, from Johnson to Louis to Ali, they all did very much for black pride and ultimate voice and respect.

 

Couple of things going on, here.

For one, Marciano was champ when Ali was young, and Ali cited him a a direct inspiration.

Two, in the book UNDEFEATED, the author cites that the two became close friends during the computer fight with Marciano citing how Italians also faced the stigma of being violent gangsters, He encouraged Ali to hang in there so that he and his people would prevail. The two had plans to do civil rights work together when Marciano died. Ali's wife said that the only time she ever saw him cry was when he heard the news.

Just goes to show that friendship knows no color.