Take away Ali’s iron chin. Then what?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Journeyman92, Apr 14, 2022.

  1. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    5,065
    Likes Received:
    6,948
    In this Alternate Universe, I'm forced to agree with my Granddaughter that Joe Louis is the GOAT.
     
    Journeyman92 and swagdelfadeel like this.
  2. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2021
    Messages:
    19,739
    Likes Received:
    21,757
    In this alternate universe, I doubt he’d be the best fighter on the planet at any one point in his career!
     
    djanders likes this.
  3. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    17,852
    Likes Received:
    28,961
    I like the even handed, common sense view on Patterson’s chin.

    Rather than reading the same old same old - viz, the number of KDs Floyd suffered - quite simply, they were what they exactly were - KDs, period - nearly all of which Floyd bounced back up from in a more than viable condition to fight on - and his overall record, as you upheld, attests to how few times Floyd was actually stopped/KO’d over so many fights.

    Having said that, I do see a notable diff. in chins between Muhammad and Floyd.

    I think it was round 4 of the first fight when Liston caught Ali with some solid shots, appearing to hurt Muhammad at one point - and of course there was round 5 when Liston got some more shots through on a partially blinded Ali.

    Maybe Floyd survives those very shots but they might’ve also have been hard enough to have a fighter with a Floydesque chin floundering a bit and cause him to be even more vulnerable to follow up punches.
     
  4. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2021
    Messages:
    19,739
    Likes Received:
    21,757
    He got hit way too much not to have an iron chin. I never saw him stopped which was what I meant, my bad. Ali scarcely got dropped and hurt as he matured the only one I saw drop him was Frazier, he hardly even looked hurt. But, yes I think coupled with his chin which was monstrous he had an indomitable will.
     
  5. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    13,671
    Likes Received:
    12,321
    Frazier might not have to. Ali cameback a little slower but also stronger and more mature in 1970. The younger kid might not be able to withstand that type of unholy beating.
     
  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    13,671
    Likes Received:
    12,321
    It was more than just his chin. Ali could absorb body punishment better than anyone I've seen in boxing. Just in Manila Frazier could have knocked out 10 heavyweights that day just off of his bodypunches...at different points in that fight.
     
    Journeyman92 likes this.
  7. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2021
    Messages:
    19,739
    Likes Received:
    21,757
    His defence and fundamental short comings crutch is the fact Ali is pretty much super humanly comic book durable. It’s comical and chilling all at once.
     
    Tockah likes this.
  8. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    13,671
    Likes Received:
    12,321
    Then it got sad after awhile. The Rope a Dope was like a new toy he discovered in 74. Then he overdid it. It was effective for a minute.
     
    Journeyman92 likes this.
  9. TheWorstEver(TWE)

    TheWorstEver(TWE) Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes Received:
    2,092
    Think a heavyweight version of Roy Jones.
     
  10. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3,527
    Likes Received:
    4,297
    I doubt he would have survived Henry Cooper.
     
    Journeyman92 likes this.
  11. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,940
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    I seriously doubt that the layoff strengthened Ali's chin.
     
  12. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,940
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Wow, what an amazing response.
    :roflmao:
     
  13. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,692
    Likes Received:
    8,773
    Measured response, you took my jibe in good faith. stay safe buddy.
     
  14. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2022
    Messages:
    6,649
    Likes Received:
    9,092
    Gil Clancy said without his chin he's Roy Jones Jr. . That's still damn good but RJJ had some ugly losses when his athleticism withered.
     
    Saintpat likes this.
  15. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Guys like Ali, McCall, Chuvalo, weren't getting hit like Patterson, Shavers, etc. The former were defense first, low risk takers, the later were offense first pressure fighters. Ali, McCall, Chuvalo usually saw what was coming at them, guys like Patterson and Shavers were often throwing or going forward into a punch when they got hit. Big difference. The punches that affect fighters are the ones they don't see.

    Make Ali a 5-11, 185 pressure fighter who had to go forward and throw punches and his chin might not have been "iron." Make Patterson 6-3, 215 and as big or bigger than his opponents, able to fight at distance and see what was coming at him, and he might have had a chin of "iron." I've never seen a video of Patterson in which he was the bigger fighter in the ring. Ali was seldom not the bigger fighter. Different fighting styles, different sizes all make a difference in whether someone is perceived to have an "iron" chin or not.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.