Could Joe Louis beat Mike Tyson?

Tyson beats prime Louis at his peak, Tyson from the 90's would have a great chance of losing the fight since he was no longer mentally strong...

 

Anyone who says Douglas is Tyson's best opponent needs to have their entire life examined. They are either a hater or a real ****ing idiot.

 

I'm talking in hindsight, meaning how he was viewed before the fight, not how he's viewed now since we have seen how the fight went down.
Before the fight, Douglas was a 42-1 underdog. Many thought he wouldn't even make it past round 1.
By contrast, many thought boxers like Spinks or Biggs could beat Tyson.

 

WB was replying to me.

I stated that Douglas was Tyson’s best opponent at least to date, as at the time.

No one has even dropped the moronic “hater” label on this thread until YOU. So typical of a little Tyson nut hugger to troll in and post such idiotic ****ing garbage. I know, butt hurt since 1990 but it really is time for you to get an actual life. LOL.

 

It really isn't hard to believe. I'm 6'1 with an 80' reach. Liston was the same height and his hands are larger than mine and he had a wider chest. When I was measured by the nurses at the clinic they were surprised by my reach measuring across the chest from finger to finger, which is probably how they got 84' for Liston. That's what people don't get. The wider your chest and the bigger your hands, the longer your "reach".

And yes, Liston absolutely knew how to get the most out of his reach for full leverage. It's impressive no matter how many times I watch it on film. Tried to emulate his power jab and I can now knock the heavybag senseless with my jab and stop people dead in their tracks, but I don't remotely have his snap and timing.

 

There still photos available but we can freeze the action for ourselves - and I’ve done so more than a few times on Liston’s fully extended jab - the distance between Sonny and the opponent he has easily landed on is insane and no illusion.

Also, Sonny’s gloves were oversized so he’d get that bit extra even with those huge hands of his curled into a fist. I don’t doubt the possibility of 84” - it’s just some slightly lower figs we’re thrown around, bottoming out at 80 1/2” for the Martin fight.

I’ve read you can get a little bit more out of your reach measurement, maximise it’s true potential, if you duly loosen up prior to being measured - shake out the kinks, tight ligs etc. If correct, you’d do a touch worse if measured pre workout as opposed to during or immediately post.

I only saw a cursory reference to same and need to read more on it but apparently Teddy Atlas commented on Liston’s enhanced ability to hyper extend from the point of his shoulder when jabbing.

Finally, a slight tangent.

Clint Eastwood was a tall man in his prime, a legit 6’3” or so with proportional arm length to go as per the vision. Clint at 91 or so has lost a LOT of height due to shortening of the the spine due to disc wear,, spinal curvature (scoliosis), bowing of the neck, etc. Further compounded by compromised posture and broadened/buckled stance.

Clint wasn’t long in the torso at best but effectively, his torso has been severely truncated since. However, his arm length has remained the same, hanging that much lower, approximating to the hang of his old mate Clyde the Orangutan, LOL.

If poor Sonny lived to a similar age with comparable truncation of the torso and other similar issues , I can only wonder where the hell Sonny’s hands might’ve ultimately hung down to.

 

I gotcha man! It was more a reply to those claiming Douglas had the style or was the best Tyson opponent, which he wasn't. Truth Williams was a better fighter than Douglas and was definitely looked at as a better fighter as his performances would prove so.

 

Well, I'm not even saying Liston absolutely must have had an 84' reach, just that it's highly unusual but well within the realms of reality since Liston and I happen to have very similar body types and proportions. I wouldn't be shocked if it was really 82 but maybe him stretching before hand or maybe doing some extra chest workouts bumped the number up a few digits. Good point about the giant custom gloves and his huge fists probably altering perceptions (especially his poor opponents who must have thought they were fighting Bane or something).

As for the last part of your post, we know Liston was about 73 when he died, so in his prime his reach was probably a far more reasonable 76'. Maybe one day some old articles/interviews will be discovered where Jack Johnson or Willard share sparring stories with Liston and they mention how his reach wasn't that remarkable back then.

 

Um... how? On what planet was Williams ever better than Douglas? What amazing wins did Williams have that put him above Douglas skills/resume wise?

 

Well yeah, 82” is super long anyway and we’re only talking an inch less per each arm as compared to 84” - a difference impossible to discern with just your own eyes.

Well, we have the 1960 and 1970 census’ to go but of course we assume Sonny would’ve reported his age as per his registered birth date, obtained and made official in 1953.

Who knows though, Sonny might surprise us again - there was a rumour that Liston was named after “Charles” Darwin - and that was when Old Charlie, The Father of Evolution, was actually still alive and kicking! An apt namesake. It was probably Darwin who gave Liston the nickname “Sonny”.

 

I do not believe stretching will give anyone extra whole inches-assuming they spread out as best they could before stretching.
I thought you were 6'0" so had an 8" ape factor-it i s"only" 7"? Still unusual!

 

If Louis can weather the storm of the first four rounds or so, I like his chances the longer the fight goes on. I think it ends up looking a lot like the Holyfield fights where Tyson just gets outboxed and outclassed.

 

That version of Douglas however could arguably be Tyson's best opponent. It comes down to how you think he stacks against a faded Holyfield or Lewis at the end of his career.

 

Tyson is unlike anyone that Louis ever fought. He's massively bigger and I assume stronger, arguably much better conditioned, throws punches at a higher rate, has much better defense, and is generally much more skilled. Tyson is a tough order for any fighter in history.

 

Why do you think Tyson was much better conditioned?

Also, Tyson wasn't much bigger either, that's huge exaggaration. Tyson didn't have higher rate, better defense or more skills.