the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

I’ll go with JLR for his consistency. Castillo was more up and down, not a great stretch where you can say ‘see here he is at the top of his game’ over a period of time.

(I’m also biased as a Ramirez fan, so I can see someone saying otherwise.)

 

I actually felt Ramirez beat Arguello, although I didn't score it RBR when I watched it. But my general feeling was that Ramirez, had done enough with the knockdown.

 

I feel the same but need to do a proper scoring as I’ve never done that. If he gets that decision, he goes up another rung on the ladder.

 

Alexis Arguello v Jose Luis Ramirez

I think Ramirez was extremely unlucky here. Not only did he score a KD, he seemed to be the harder puncher and closed the show in the 10th by rocking Arguello. I think the scoring comes down to those early rounds where there wasn't much in it, although I had Ramirez in a slight lead by the end of round 4. Rounds 5 and 6 were clear Ramirez rounds, though, and where I think he started to fully control the fight.

Ramirez nullified Arguello's right hand for much of the fight with his movement, not allowing Arguello to settle into a rhythm. He also countered Alexis expertly, making him reluctant to throw his biggest punch. It was only in the later rounds that Alexis left the right hand go, but as a lead rather than off the jab as you would usually expect him to. To be fair, he landed this well on several occasions and it's interesting to note that the lead right was Julio Cesar Chavez's most effective punch against Ramirez 8 years later and he threw it continually in that fight - couldn't miss with it, in fact.

I was wondering if the fight had been championship distance whether Arguello would have gone one to take the win clearly, but to be honest, he didn't look good here at all and I feel Ramirez could have taken the official verdict over 15 rounds.

1 10-10 (cagey. Ramirez slightly busier but not much of anything landing)
2 10-9 (close. Strong start from Ramirez before Arguello had success. Either way type of round - went back and forth on this one)
3 9-10
4 9-10 (close again. Ramirez countering Arguello well)
5 9-10 (masterful work by Ramirez and Arguello looks befuddled)
6 8-10 (Ramirez had landed the most impactful punches up to this point and illustrates that in this round with a KD)
7 10-9 (close)
8 10-10
9 10-9
10 9-10
Arguello 94-97 Ramirez

 

Haha. Much like Ramirez with Arguello, you beat me to the punch.

Here’s mine:

Alexis Arguello vs. Jose Luis Ramirez, scheduled for 10 rounds at Jai Alai Fronton in Miami on the undercard of the Jeff Chandler vs. Julian Solis bantamweight championship bout. The card is promoted by MAPS (Muhammad Ali Professional Sports) aka Harold Smith, who embezzled some $21M from Wells Fargo to fund his boxing promotions.

Arguello, 135 1/4 (Boxrec says 135 1/2, I’m going with what Jimmy Lennon said during introductions and Don Dunphy repeated on commentary), is 64-5 (54) and the reigning WBC super featherweight champion. He has made seven defenses of that title and is testing the waters at lightweight for the second time in a row, aiming at age 28 to add a championship in a third weight class (he beat Cornelius Boza Edwards in his previous fight).

Ramirez, 135, is Mexican lightweight champ. The 21-year-old is 67-2 (57) — the broadcast has him about 20 wins short of his actual record.

1: Even 10-10

2: Ramirez 10-9

3: Ramirez 10-9

4. Arguello 10-9

5. Ramirez 10-9

6. Ramirez 10-9 (knockdown)

7. Arguello 10-9

8. Arguello 10-9 (close)

9. Ramirez 10-9

10. Ramirez 10-9

Total: Ramirez 97-93

Official cards: 95-94 Arguello, 97-94 Arguello, 98-95 Ramirez

Agree with your assessment. IMO you have to stretch pretty hard to give this to Arguello. Even the first, which I called even, if I had to award it to either I’d have gone with JLR.

 

D, I've had this penciled in since seeing this post. Finally getting to it now. Saw it live back in the day and didn't remember it being so...dull. But this was Ali in his later days where the reflexes were waning, the speed was gone and all he had left was a great jaw, great ring generalship and his penchant for playing to the crowd. Nevertheless, here we go:

Muhammad Ali v Earnie Shavers (world heavyweight title) NY rounds scoring in effect

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Shavers
Round 3: Shavers
Round 4: Shavers
Round 5: Ali
Round 6: Shavers
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Shavers
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Ali
Round 11: Ali
Round 12: Ali
Round 13: Shavers
Round 14: Shavers
Round 15: Ali

Total: 7-6-2 Shavers (actual scores: 9-6, 9-6 and 9-5-1 all for Ali)

To begin, I've always been an Ali man, but I gotta call them the way I see them. Just too much messing around on Ali's part and let the fight get away. Can't criticize the scores. I had 2 Even rounds, which, if I gave them to Ali I would have had the same winner as the judges. At least we were on the same page and not looking at crazy disparities which seem to be so prevalent today. D, we only seemed to disagree on the 3rd round - aside from my 2 Evens - so that's not too bad. But if anyone is looking for excitement, this ain't it. Perhaps only rounds 2, 10 and 15 were decent.

 

Scored this a couple of years back. This is what I wrote:

Here's one that doesn't get much attention but is well worth seeing. Alexis Arguello vs Jose Luis Ramirez over 10 rounds. Great fight. Ramirez never fought a better fight. He was so very busy which countered Arguello's bombs throughout. I had it close enough where one couldn't gripe too much, but here we go. 10 point must system.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Arguello
Round 3: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 4: 10-9 Arguello
Round 5: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 6: 10-8 Ramirez (Ramirez scores a knockdown)
Round 7: 10-9 Arguello
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Arguello
Round 10: 10-9 Ramirez

Total: 96-95 Ramirez

 

Was so close to going on a Winky Wright binge, but as I lined up my fight list, it was just so uninspiring, I found it hard to get excited for.

(quick interjection about Arguello vs JLR. I'm sure I scored it 6-4 Arguello, but I would have to dig out my card)

So anyways I wanted a fight list that was exciting to watch, but was also still somewhat relevant. And I settled on AJ.

The year is 2014. Wlad rules the world, Stiverne has just picked up the WBC belt, Fury is still considered a bit of a joke.

AJ won Olympic Gold and is stepping up for the first time as a pro. He's had a Tyson like hype train and has blown out overmatched opposition. Skelton is his first step on the domestic ladder.

AJ has a very respectful measured start, boxes smart from range and opens up with a quick combo in the first round, but then goes back to a patient approach.

In the 2nd round he doesn't really catch Skelton clean, he does land a clubbing temple shot though thay really shakes Skelton to the core. He beats the count but is soon pounded into a tko loss.

Good showing by AJ.

 

AJ vs Sprott

Joshua is keeping the level of his opponents relatively high as he fights another domestic stalwart in Michael Sprott. This time in a British Eliminator.

The first minute he is very mobile, quick hands, looking for the opening. It comes pretty quickly and he peppers Sprott with hard shots, backs him against the ropes and unleashes until the ref steps in.

Very good showing, but god I hate British Stoppages. They would have robbed Julian Jackson of his greatest moment.

 

Yeah I watched this when I was on my Ali binge watching Norton trilogy, only the last 5 rounds were interesting. Fight could of gone either way.

 

Seems like everyone here thought Ramirez was hard done by, I think it's pretty hard not to give to Ramirez the decision based on knockdown. Hard to win a 10 rounder with a knockdown in a close fight.

 

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I've decided to work through a checklist of fights from three current, American southpaws. These three being Crawford, Davis and Prograis. My reasons are varied, but basically come down to both really enjoying watching them, and wanting to fight like them. Having started a cut, and having a hand injury, I'm pretty limited to running for cardio, and chilling out in my free time at home. So over the next month, I'll be watching some from these guys.

Anyway, I planned to start with Crawford vs Burns, but this come up first and I remembered it being a good fight.

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10 : 9
9 : 10
8 : 10
10 : 9 (37/38)
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 8
10 : 9 (

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It's a pretty calm opening round, Crawford taking it basically on the virtue of his constant jab. He's clearly taking his time and looking at ways he can open up Kavaliauskas, who isn't really offering much but a right hand. That all changes in the second, where it goes from Crawford dictating pretty much everything, to Kavaliauskas timing Crawford and stepping in with a sweet 3-2, then back out of range again. He lands this, and lands it hard, a good three or four times and clearly has Crawford hurt. He was actually robbed, clearly, of a KD in the third and it was off another well timed right.

Unfortunately for Kavaliauskas, this really woke Crawford up and he seemed to mentally engage with the contest. He had an attitude about him which lead to taking many unnecessary shots, but he did step things up and sweep my card from the forth onwards. Some of these rounds were competitive, but Crawford likely deserved all of them, but a share could be given to Kavaliauskas in the forth, fifth and sixth.

Much was made by the commentary team about Crawford's insistence on staying southpaw, and once he switched to Orthodox, he did almost immediately land a booming right hand in the seventh which led to a knockdown.

 

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Continuing on my Crawford run - I actually wrote that last card about three days ago and forgot to post it looool - here were on with what's largely considered Crawford's best fight and breakout fight. It's also a pretty damn good example of a fighter evolving during a fight, and retaining that knowledge later on down the line.

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9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10 (36/40)
10 : 8
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 8 (

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This really was a battle of two halfs if I ever saw one. Gamboa was taking full advantage of his speed advantages, and skipping in with a sharp, throwaway 3-2. Crawford seemed to be taken aback by the sheer speed of Gamboa, but the repetitive nature of these flurries was what cost him. Gamboa was landing cleaner and swept the first four imo, but as Crawford took a look at him in the third and forth, you could tell he was adapting. Gamboa was getting countered more and landing less.

In the fifth, Gamboa poked the dragon one time too many, and he got nailed with a beauty of a check-right hook. Clipped him high on the head and put him straight down. Credit to him, as he seemed eager to correct his mistake doubled down on the offensive. The head-movement Crawford showed while backing up was impressive, especially as he continued to exploit the chink he'd found in Gamboa's armour. Crawford had taken away Gamboa's main scoring weapon now, and started trying new things out through the sixth and seventh. He walked Gamboa down, he kept his jab going, he tried a low pace and when he tried a faster pace in the eighth, he seemed to wake Gamboa back up. Gamboa started flurrying again to combat Crawford and left himself wide open for more of the same shots. He didn't recover this time, and took a prolonged beating up until the stoppage.

Y'know, it's a shame about Gamboa. Not only in the sense that he wasted a large chunk of his prime with poor managerial decisions, but the very fact he was so much less than the sum of his parts. All that raw talent, refined skill and Cuban pedigree, and yet, a very mediocre fighter in the end. It goes to show that you can have it all, but without the intangibles to back it up, you're not going very far. And I'm not just talking about heart, as Gamboa had bags of heart. It's just something that he couldn't ever blend everything he had into a nice run over good opposition. Nevertheless, this is still a nice win for Crawford and imo, it aged very well. Given how he was far more impressive against a much better Gamboa than Tank and Haney were years later.

 

George, I checked this out a couple of months back. I too enjoyed it. This is what I wrote:

Terence Crawford v Yuri Gamboa (lightweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Gamboa
Round 3: 10-9 Gamboa
Round 4: 10-9 Gamboa
Round 5: 10-8 Crawford (scores a knockdown)
Round 6: 10-9 Crawford
Round 7: 10-9 Crawford
Round 8: 10-8 Crawford (scores a knockdown)
Round 9: Crawford drops Gamboa twice and the fight is called

Total through 8 completed rounds: 77-74 Crawford (actual scores: 77-73, 78-72 and another 78-72 all for Crawford)

Rewatching this was brilliant. I don't think anyone has ever given Crawford this kind of a fight. You guys all summed it up well. I will mention one observation about Gamboa that has always annoyed me. Let's face it, he doesn't have a Chuvalo-like chin. More Amir Khan-ish to tell you the truth. And every time he has been hurt in his fights -whether it's just an arrogant kind of reaction - he sort of walks into his opponent with his hands down as if to say, "Didn't hurt!" And then promptly gets nailed again. Oh, man, that had to be frustrating for his corner. But again, good fight.

 

Fellas, I'd love to weigh in on the Arguello Ramirez decisions, but I've somehow lost my card. It's not in any of the places I usually store them. But anyway, I remember having it 5-5 with the KD giving an edge to Ramirez. Weirdly quite a forgotten fight.