The Greater Fighter - Pacquiao Or SRL??

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Apr 28, 2022.

?

The Greater Fighter?

  1. Pacquiao?

    31.3%
  2. Leonard?

    68.7%
  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    29,427
    Likes Received:
    20,036
    This is actually my profession. You’re welcome to pretend to know about eye problems, but I can assure you that nothing resembling recovery was taking place in his eye after the first year.

    I’d he’d wanted to fight, he would’ve done like Spence did (similar injury, better outcome).
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
    Mark Dunham likes this.
  2. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    29,427
    Likes Received:
    20,036
    On November 9, 1982, Leonard invited Marvin Hagler and other boxing dignitaries to a charity event in Baltimore, Maryland to hear him announce whether he would continue his career. Standing in a boxing ring with Howard Cosell, the master of ceremonies, Leonard announced his retirement, saying a bout with Hagler would unfortunately never happen. Leonard maintained his eye was fully healed, but that he just didn't want to box anymore.
     
    Mark Dunham likes this.
  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    25,805
    Likes Received:
    10,006
    Interesting .. so you're an expert in retinal detachment and a psychologist .. zzzzzzzzzzz
     
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    29,427
    Likes Received:
    20,036
    I never claimed to be a psychologist, that’s someone else, but some of us do have real professions beyond filmmaker/historian.
     
  5. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    58,344
    Likes Received:
    13,429
    I'm going with Pac in this one. When he defeated Thurman, Bradley, Algieri and Solis, they had a combined record of 114-0-2. None had ever lost a professional fight. Ever. You can't say anything like that for Leonard's opponents. Crunch the numbers, guys. Crunch. the. numbers.

    See, that is my main problem with Leonard's resume. There is a serious dearth of challenges from quality opponents on it-in the win column anyway. When you compare it to Pacman's, of course. If you compared it to a modern ATG's like Gamboa, it's actually a little better. But Leonard's numbers aren't there. He is a numerically challenged ATG.
     
  6. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2021
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    I'm from leonard's era but i have to go with Pac here. too many achievements to speak of

    Too bad he didnt beat Floyd, but then, who has?
     
  7. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2021
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    those historians really dont have much useful education. they usually end up working in museums or libraries

    some end up teaching at the college level, but you can never really trust anything they tell you
     
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    41,855
    Likes Received:
    11,160
    Good thread.


    My opinions:

    The better fighter when at their absolute best: Ray

    The fighter with the better wins: Ray

    The winner had they have fought each other between LWW-JMW: Ray

    Accomplishments: Manny

    Deepest resume: Manny

    Longevity: Manny


    Overall better fighter and career: Ray
     
    OddR, DJN16, Joeywill and 1 other person like this.
  9. Barrf

    Barrf Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2021
    Messages:
    7,155
    Likes Received:
    10,795
    Hard to argue with SRL's quality scalps. Duran, Hagler, Hearns... ****.
     
    Joeywill likes this.
  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    29,427
    Likes Received:
    20,036
    In other words, equal.
     
    OddR likes this.
  11. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2014
    Messages:
    18,440
    Likes Received:
    9,605
    This is a tough one. Ray was a better boxer/h2h, but that doesn’t tell us anything about which of them were “greater.”

    Leonard’s wins over Hearns, Benitez, Duran (Duran had 4,765 shifting excuses after the fact though), and (post-prime) Hagler are amazing accomplishments, but Manny beat several Hall of Famers himself, and I like his longevity and rise through weight classes.

    So it’s Manny for me.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
    Joeywill and Pugguy like this.
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    41,855
    Likes Received:
    11,160
    The 154 title was contested at a C-W.

    It should never have been allowed.

    However, he deserves huge credit for fighting and beating Marg.
     
    Joeywill and George Crowcroft like this.
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    41,855
    Likes Received:
    11,160
    Get real.
     
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    41,855
    Likes Received:
    11,160
    Prime for prime, I think that Ray was a better fighter.

    Those fighters that you’ve mentioned were great fighters, but Ray was on his way out then.

    They came on the scene and we’re in their primes between the end of the 80’s, and the early 90’s.

    Ray only fought 3 times in the late 80’s, and then just twice in the 90’s.
     
  15. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2022
    Messages:
    17,461
    Likes Received:
    37,570
    The last part for me is why Pacquiao edges it, longevity and more padding and quality wins overall.

    But it comes down to what you prefer, does SRL's 4 all time great wins trump Manny Pacquiaos dozen or so quality wins.

    For me I prefer the longevity but I can see why people will disagree.