The Myth About Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran

No, it is not exaggerated.

 

Right on a par with the "he fought Duran's fight" excuse that Leonard fans use for the first fight.

 

Leonard made different tactical decisions for the fights ands was added by Duran misreading it all . The joke was the rematch was pretty competitive until Duran lost his sh-t ..

 

Props for the Digital Underground in your sig.

On topic, I mentioned in the thread where @mrkoolkevin did his well-researched timeline (and included a link to a Washington Post article where a reporter is in Duran’s training camp in Miami, which further points out how well prepared he is) — this is actually Duran’s LONGEST layoff in years.

The book on Duran was get him in the ring again as soon as possible. The longer you wait, the more he’ll party. People think Duran would have knuckled down more if the fight was made for January? He would have just partied longer and gotten more out of shape.

Kevin’s timeline spells out how far in advance the fight was agreed upon. If Duran decided to keep partying, how the heck is that anyone’s fault but his? If anything, Duran’s camp should have been pushing to have it sooner, not later.

And it’s also completely documented that Leonard went to Hawaii after the first fight. He was beat up and depressed. Thinking about retiring. Then he went for a run on the beach and decided he wanted to avenge the defeat and called up Mike Trainer and said ‘make the fight.’

So whatever else Leonard may have said, he clearly decided he wanted Duran again immediately, like a week after the first fight. Now if you want to argue that Duran gained 40-50 pounds in a week, go right ahead, but Leonard was set on fighting Duran again before Roberto could have done too much partying.

And has it occurred to anyone that Duran was going to have to defend his title soon against someone, Leonard or not? He’s sat on it for nearly six month. They’re not going to let him keep it forever. If he doesn’t take the Leonard fight, he’s going to be defending for a lot less money against a guy that he’s less likely to be motivated to fight. In fact, I think it was Eleta who said they feared Duran would end up losing to a nobody if they didn’t get him back in the ring (which had been the way they did it all along during his career — give him less time to eat and party, not more).

Leonard’s side made a huge offer with guaranteed money. They also said if Duran isn’t interested, fine, we’ll fight Pipino instead. Duran’s side would have been fools not to accept.

If Duran, who spent years as lightweight champion, really thought he wasn’t going to have to defend the welterweight title … seriously? And that meant getting back in the gym. Which he did for Leonard — we have credible reports. Look at the guy in the ring — whether you think he’s in Montreal shape or not, he’s not out of shape. He’s not flabby or completely drained.

And take the worst case you may believe about Roberto’s conditioning for this fight — how does ‘I’m not at my best’ translate to ‘I’ll quit like a dog’? He wasn’t getting beat up. We’ve seen countless fighters in less than best shape — not to mention with broken hands or fighting one-armed, etc. — gut it out and try. It only takes one punch to turn around a fight. He quit because he was being outclassed and decided he didn’t like that.

 

IMO, Duran’s victory over Leonard was his absolute, pin point, peak performance - mind, body, soul and unbelievable experience plus malicious contempt and hate for Leonard (ala Frazier for Ali, FOTC), ladled on top, all these things in optimal alignment.

And, though Duran’s pressure did force Ray’s hand to some extent, Leonard still fought Duran’s fight and not his own. With all that, Leonard proved his chin and overall durability and it was still a very close fight in my book.

Ray was younger, he only stood to improve, learn immensely and become more self aware from the Montreal experience and be more soundly strategised in the return match.

I actually saw more reasons to favour an improved Leonard in the rematch while understanding that Roberto could not possibly improve on the sublime display in Montreal, rather, it would be a very difficult feat to replicate given Duran’s own age and already lengthy resume.

Duran wasn’t stupid, and I think he would’ve understood same. Sometimes fighters quit well before the actual fact of the fight - and Duran coming into the fight in less than ideal condition was maybe the first pre med step before the eventual No Mas.

The rematch was fairly close but it was still only the best part of 8 rounds and we would’ve likely seen Ray pull away exponentially thereafter.

It seems to be over sighted that Duran wasn’t getting any younger, with numerous tough fights before him and fighting above his best natural weight.

I think Duran’s random HL fights thereafter were more the natural exceptions - his lesser performances perhaps being the rule and reasonably expected all things considered re his age, long record and contesting in upper divisions.

 

Duran made Leonard fight his fight. Duran was incredibly motivated and conditioned.

 

Yeah, Leonard never really struck me as a guy who cares much about how hardcore boxing fans rate his victories though.

Interesting point that always gets ignored is that Duran apparently had a much harder time making weight for the first fight. He was running around in multiple layers of clothing in the summertime the week of the fight to make weight in Montreal.

 

With a not-so-small difference being that Leonard and his people publicly stated that they planned to fight Duran's fight before the fight...

 

That's called "covering your bases". If you get the win, it looks even better. If you lose, the excuse is already out there.

 

There's a huge difference in making weight and being in fighting shape. I've posted before where Bob Arum a few years after the fight saw Roberto that summer and thought he weighed close to 200 pounds. Sort of like when James Toney made weight for the Jones fight but was no where near ready and for the same reason as Roberto , lack of discipline . Roberto grew up poor as poor gets and when faced with doing, eating, drinking or having anything he wanted he indulged. I remember Freddie Brown saying once that the only reason Duran moved to 154 pounds was he didn't want to train and lose the weight not because he couldn't. Looking at the back part of his career he put significant effort out in very few fights, Cuevas, Moore , Hagler, Barkley and maybe Pazienza . And there was his win over Jorge Castro when Duran was ancient , I never could figure out how Duran got that win. I always rate fighters historically when they were at their best, I rate Duran comfortably inside the top 5 of all time. Higher than Leonard by far.

 

In the rematch, Ray made Duran fight his fight. Ray was very motivated and conditioned. It works both ways.

 

I think so. Both guys had the same layoff, and that could be seen as not having a long layoff. Had it been a longer layoff, they might say Duran was rusty. It would have been interesting had they had a rubber match in 1981 early on, but Duran's confidence at that point was affected.

 

If Duran does anything short of quitting, a rubber match for huge money for both sides would have been in the offing straightaway.

But Duran was untouchable after quitting, at least until he found some sort of redemption. And that took a long time. Had he beaten Benitez, it was in the offing (before Ray’s detached retina halted his career for a time). It was openly talked about. And Roberto, who had been talking about only wanting Leonard, mails it in even though it’s his third-highest career payday to that time (apart from the two Leonard fights) and the very real possibility of getting the match he wanted with Ray if he beat Wilfred.

(It’s a fair argument that peak Wilfred — and he’s pretty close to that vs. Duran — may have just been a bad matchup for any version of Roberto, but his effort still looked subpar.)

You can’t walk into a super fight, where people are paying money to see it in a theater or arena on closed circuit, quit mid-fight with no injury or excuse and expect promoters can sell a rematch of that fight. Nobody’s buying what you’re selling.

 

great post and points. Duran had to resell himself after quitting, and he did for the most part with his big fights later on. To think after Ray he fought Benitez and Hearns and Hagler and Ray again.. And then also Barkley and Moore and later on 19 years after the fab 4 he still had some fights against Camacho and Pazienza to cap his career. He just loved boxing.