Bonecrusher Smith vs George Foreman, Zaire, 1974

Excellent analyses GCC!

 

No, because of agendas. Smith fought in a later era compared to 70's Foreman and despite the overwhelming poll on Foremans favor, you still get people pretending this is an even matchup. Some people will consistently favor a fighter from a later era simply because they're from a later era.

A perfect example is White Bomber claiming Louis would have lost to Michael Bent to stick with his agenda since he thinks Morrison beats Louis, therefore anyone who beat Morrison would also beat Louis.

 

Bonecrusher was on a tier below Dokes, Thomas, Page, Tucker, Berbick...I dont even put him on the level of 1979 to 1984 Weaver. To me the Witherspoon ko was over a completely uninvolved, undertrained, uninspired fighter...as Tim himself explained. He was nowhere near even 1986 Holmes or Spinks, certainly not Tyson. To me he was the ultimate alphabet champ, a notch above Seldon, Briggs, Bruno (even that last name is contestable). He just wasn't good enough to beat prime (or even 1993) Foreman, Lyle...I think even peak Quarry might have taken him. He had a real good shot, but Holmes stopped him twice, he survived Tyson, Ruddock pulverised him, Marvis...WOW. He just wasn't a great fighter. Wilder actually had better basics (yeah. I know) and a far better punch. I'm not even sure I can rate his basic ability too much over Shavers. to be honest. No offense to fans, to me he was summarily unimpressive...though arguably not too much more than the first list of names I mentioned above.

 

I think foreman stops smith. Might be a tough battle for several rounds however

 

Part of my reason for posting the Ledoux clip wasn't me saying he's just as strong of a wrestler or as good a contender as Smith, but to show that the instant someone tried wrestling 70's Foreman he obliged them and submitted them into the canvas. Chuvalo also tried being tough and wrestled with Foreman and Foreman casually launched him across the ring with one arm before the red warned them.

I'm not saying that would be his reaction every time, or that Foreman could rag doll Smith just as easily as he did Ledoux. What I am saying is that this spamming clinches until Foreman gets tired strategy probably won't work because Foreman apparently has little patience for people trying to wrestle him. The ref would also probably end up giving warnings and deducting points if it becomes a back and forth rough house loony toons brawl. You're also forgetting one crucial thing: Smith is also going to be getting tired trying to wrestle with Foreman. Ali tired him out due to the clinching tactics+Foreman punching himself out. I really don't see any possibility of Foreman gassing before he manages to stop Smith because, again, Smith doesn't have 1/4 of Ali's ability to roll with shots and counter to sap Foreman of his energy. There also wouldn't be any fighting being done in the ropes which also aided in tiring Foreman out as Ali could lean into them and make Foreman miss by several inches.

I mean you can say this about dozens of fighters that fit this description. I guess Buddy Baer, Arreola, and Whyte could all drag Foreman into deep waters in Zaire and stop him late with wrestling? If we're being brutally honest, there isn't much in Smiths resume or skill set separating him from those 3 other than winning the lottery against an unmotivated Witherspoon.

Clinching to survive and losing a completely lopsided decision doesn't convince me he paces himself better. If Foreman had no shame at all he could have done the same thing against Ali.

Then I guess if he isn't willing to trade, the most likely verdicts are either Foreman wide UD or he stops Smith late after Smith takes a knee from all the brutal body shots leaving him with severe internal bleeding.

You do realize that Ali and Young were only able to win fighting "negatively" due to their superior speed, reflexes, and defense, not just by hugging Foreman to death? Smith has the reflexes of a cow with arthritis and his defense makes Bert Cooper look like Willie Pep. He's going to take a **** load of damage before his so called deep water opportunity bears fruit.

Ali's ability to take shots to the body and his punching power are completely different things. Ali's power is also very underrated but that's a different conversation.

By his own corners admission, Ali had some very pained expressions but willed himself to win digging deep and pretending like he wasn't hurt to psychologically damage Foreman. And it worked, because Foreman himself said he started doubting himself after the 5th round when he landed his most devastating body shot he ever landed on an opponent (according to him) and Ali asked him if that was all he had.

Tyson has a different style and has different punching mechanics compared to Foreman. Him being short with short arms and only able to fight on the front foot made it relatively easy for Smith to get the timing down and consistently tie Tyson up. A guy his own size throwing bombs from mid range is a hell of a lot harder to tie up due to basic physics and the clash do styles.

Not much was landed in the Tyson Smith fight partly because Tyson stopped trying to knock him out and started boxing to win points. Call it dumb, but Foreman would not shift gears like that and would continue attempting to knock Smith out. Also unlike Foreman, Tyson was engaging in "silent agreements" whenever he needed a breather which Smith was happy to honor since it was part of his game plan to stall anyways.

 

The reason it’s intriguing was that in his prime Smith took a great punch, had great strength and had much better stamina than Foreman. Who knows.

 

Exactly, James Smith isn´t exactly the guy for a save bet on George.
Nor is he a pushover regarding strength & chin, nor is he going to be weak in the later rounds. The best formula to beat this crude strong guy is move and stick a jab into his face.

 

After watching Smith vs. Tubbs and Witherspoon, if it could happen I'd bet on Smith to beat 70s Foreman. Smith is a monster talent, at 6-4, 236, in the Witherspoon fight he looked slim. He was quicker than Foreman, had good balance, kept his feet under him, had some boxing skills, and fought whoever was put in front of him. He started boxing late and was older than listed in most fights. Smith was actually born in 1953. He was not pampered and fought tough competition from the start.
He fought a tough fight with Tubbs and regardless of what excuse is made for Witherspoon, Smith was just too much for him when he attacked. Smith has the physical advantages in size, speed, and stamina. He is also extremely powerful and durable too. I'd bet on him.
EDIT: I don't think Smith would need to hold/wrestle Foreman at all, he might take Foreman out like he did Witherspoon, Bruno, Weaver, etc. The more video I see of Smith, the less I think of Foreman's chances.

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Jesus. Just because a guy names himself "Bonecrusher" doesn't mean he had great power.

If James Smith went by the name SUGAR James Smith, that didn't mean he was a sweet boxer. If he went by James "The Body Snatcher" Smith, that didn't mean he was great at working the body.

James Smith fought 62 times and scored 32 knockouts. He was one of the lightest punching men to ever hold a heavyweight belt. EVER.

Smith hit not quite as hard as an average heavyweight contender. Any heavyweight can knock out any other on any given day. Smith knocked out basically HALF his opponents. That's all.

George Foreman in his 20s destroys James Smith. Smith was afraid of getting hit. Smith went into a shell and panicked during slugfests. Smith was a late sub who got lucky one night when a guy he had already lost to didn't train for a rematch with Tony Tubbs.

Three months later Smith was an ex-champ and he totally embarrassed himself.

You never saw James Smith in a knock down, drag out fight like Foreman-Lyle because Smith was terrified of fights like that. If he felt an opponent's power, he panicked.

To hell with young Foreman, I wouldn't pick Smith over old Foreman.

Young Foreman destroyed Joe Frazier twice. Smith couldn't even stop or beat Marvis Frazier.

Enough nonsense.

 

Mike Weaver was stopped early by Larry Frazier, too. That doesn't mean Larry Frazier would do better than Joe Frazier and beat Foreman.

James Smith wasn't some ferocious puncher. He rematched with Weaver, and it went the distance. He fought Witherspoon when Witherspoon was in shape and motivated, and Tim won easily.

Smith was a heavyweight who would throw everything he could into a punch. And he stopped about half his opponents. That isn't A LOT.

Smith wasn't going to knock out George Foreman. Smith wasn't going to get in a war with him. He'd panic at the thought of that.

 

Yes. One of the lightest punching heavyweights to ever hold a belt.

Change James Smith's name to "Too Sweet" Smith ... and look at his record ... and he doesn't look like much of a puncher.

"Too Sweet" lost to Marvis Frazier. "Too Sweet" lost to Levi Billups. "Too Sweet" lost to Michael Moorer. "Too Sweet" lost to Adilson Rodrigues. "Too Sweet" barely decisioned Jesse Ferguson, Jose Ribalta, Mark Wills and David Bey.