Was it the amount of rounds that did Ali in for his long term health?

In my opinion as champion from 1964-1967, Muhammad Ali did not take the punishment that he endured in his second career 1970-1978, and as champion from 1974-1978. In his first title reign, Ali could avoid punches that were aimed at him, he had fantastic footwork, unending stamina, which afforded him to avoid the ropes, Ali had incredible speed and reflexes. He never suffered any facial damages and cuts during his title defenses nor did he ever hit the canvas, the last time he was decked was against Henry Cooper on June 18 1963 prior to winning the title from Sonny Liston on Feb 25 1964. The necessary change in Ali's style in his second career upon his return to boxing in Oct 1970 was necessary as all of his natural gifts that he had prior to his 43 month banishment were gone, sparring is really not the same as actual ring combat for the duration of 15 rounds, also in actual combat head gear is not worn. Ali was vulnerable to punishment dished out by opponents. Ali used the ropes more when he returned to the ring as well as in his title winning victory over champion George Foreman in Oct 1974, afterwards he continued this tactic allowing him to take unnecessary blows to the head, causing Neurological Issues later on with symptoms of slurred speech, later on Parkinson's Syndrome.

 

Ali could of really used those tips from someone like Archie Moore.

 

That’s an excellent quantification of comparative rounds.

There’s Ali’s numerous sparring rounds to ladle on top also - sparring rounds in which he willingly absorbed punishment.

Sad to say, it would’ve been somewhat of a miracle if Ali came out unscathed given the punishment he did absorb.

Also, even if we magically removed the accumulative effects of prior punishment, Ali still fought to an age when even the same punches he took previously would be far more lethal on an older but relatively unscathed version - simply fighting at 35 yo vs Earnie Shavers was never going to be good for anyone’s health no matter their preceding history.

 

I do not think it was the "More" rounds Ali fought over Tyson, but the beatings he took in these rounds. Moore fought way longer than both Ali or Tyson, but Moore knew the tricks to avoid the punishment in his advance age. Lying on the ropes and taking shots from some one like Joe Frazier like Ali did in fight 3 is not good for your health, nor as you said the Shavers fight. Ali was pretty much a "Slugger" if you call it that near the end.

 

I think he was predisposed to parkinsons and boxing advanced it quickly.

 

Normally a +3 years layoff is great for a boxer, cause it allows his body to heal.
But both prime Tyson and prime Ali barely got hit in their prime, so their health was very good even before the layoff.
Ali's problem was that he was hit too much in his comeback. He should have retired after 74.

 

Parkinson’s disease is caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

Boxing was his environmental factor but he most certainly had some genetic markers that others who fought longer and took more punishment did not.

 

Sure, but it stands to reason - more rounds = more punishment. I also identified the permutations in Ali’s case - LOTs of sparring and propensity to invite and absorb punishment. Even in his prime, Ali took more punishment over 15 rounds vs Chuvalo than in any other of his 60s fights. If he could’ve stopped Chuvalo like say Frazier or Foreman, the punishment absorbed would’ve been so much less.

The orig. comparison was specific to Tyson - who himself absorbed more punishment the longer a fight went. Also, the punishment, if any, absorbed over the time taken for 8 X first round blow outs doesn’t equate to the same punishment that might be involved in the one fight with both fighters warmed up and fully engaging.

The point I made re age - if I got into the ring for the first time at 35 yo, I would likely take a punch worse and be prone to more permanent damage than if I took the same punch at 22 yo.

At HW, Ali fought the biggest men in boxing and against some of the biggest all time punchers in history - and unfortunately he sampled a good measure of their power.

Archie is the very much the exceptional wild card to the rule - and old Arch certainly didn’t rely on pure athleticism and reflex to defend himself - Arch had the formulated cross arm defence, viably executed into his advanced years.

And finally there’s simply variances in sheer physiology - again, Arch was one of the rare and lucky examples - Ali’s bro Rahman apparently has Parkinson’s now, but the onset was only in the last few years.

Whether Ali was predisposed to same, one only has to watch each and every fight to understand that his condition was more or less brought on by boxing.

 

Certainly didn't help.

 

This. You can't use different individuals to compare, as if zero rounds is some ground zero marker and everyone degenerates at the same level for every round fought. Some withstand it better than others.

 

100%.

 

Not many people know this. I only learned because I went to his museum (in Louisville) when I was 17.

 

Ali took more punches in his last 10 fights than all his previous fights combined.

 

Yeah he shoud have retired adter Zaire. Then his heakth wouldnt decline so rapidly.