Sonny Liston vs Oleksandr Usyk

OK. Fair enough, so are we also holding Ali's losses to Berbick and Holmes against him? Tyson's to Williams and McBride? Frazier's performance against Cummings?

Regarding Liston being hurt by a 180 pound man in his 7th pro fight when he was said to be caught laughing? What does that mean in the grand scheme of things? That anyone that size or bigger who was as good or better than Marshall could hurt him? You should've been in Floyd's corner for his two bouts with Liston. We would've had a completely different outcome.

 

Please stop.

This isn't even remotely true. He fought 0 opponents who were more than 210 at cruiser.

Don't even know how to reply to this. You just sound like a fanboy. Liston's strength is well documented. Foreman stated an older Liston backed him up, and bullied him around the ring. Would Usyk be able to do so?

The more you post, the more your lack of knowledge seeps through. "Liston couldn't land a glove prior to that" Really? Why were they dead even on the scorecards?

As for the substance that blinded Ali, I don't know what it was. It might've been something used for Liston's cuts, that got in Ali's eyes during a clinch or something.

Your claim that it happened to Cleveland Williams is unsubstantiated bull****. Find me one source where Williams makes such a claim or anywhere on film where it's evident that he's having vision issues.

 

I don’t care what the scorecards said, Ali schooled him and Liston barley landed a glove until that suspicious round
Tell me why Liston is stronger than Usyk? Because Foreman said? Foreman said a lot of things didn’t he? You take what he says with pinch of salt, why in your opinion is Liston so definitively stronger than Usyk? Because he looked mean? Because he was intimidating? Like what proof is there? If anything the proof is with Usyk being heavier + the the crusierweights Usyk fought would’ve been 210 or more with the weight cuts these days, most of the crusierweights these days are the same size as Liston

 

There is always an excuse. Caught laughing...don;t laugh during fights. Oleksandr Usyk doesn't laugh during fights. Same kind of crap as "Ali closing," or however it was phrased. ****-stupid excuse making.

 

I can't read this because of the stupid coloring, and I think that was your intention.

Usyk's competition is better than Liston's by a country mile.

 

Again, can't read it due to the stupid intentional lettering. Usyk's competition was better, and on average heavier.

 

I like Usyk and he’s fought some good guys…I think Liston has the slight edge to about even in the quality wins department. Don’t underrate men like Folley, Machen, Williams, and Patterson. That’s four names that were either number 1s or champs. Folley and Machens resumes are probably more stacked then everyone but AJ on Usyks resume. They’re often grossly underrated on this forum whereas there actual performances are not.

 

You may not care what the scorecards "said" but you weren't a judge in that bout and judging by your laughable opinions on here it's a good thing you weren't.

On one hand we have Ali who said Liston was one of the strongest men he faced. Foreman said Liston was the strongest man he faced. Liston also used to push three wheelbarrows full of rocks up a hill at a time, Foreman could only do one.

On the other hand, you think Usyk was stronger...... because he weighed more.

Hmmm this is a tough one.

 

Regardless if it was true or not, it was his 7th pro fight which is not an excuse and an undisputed fact. It's ridiculous you're actually holding it against him. Many fighters, and ATGs have very early career losses that mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

You've been avoiding my question though. I'd like a response. Are you holding Tyson's losses to McBride and Williams against him? Ali's to Holmes and Berbick? Frazier's draw with Berbick?

 

Stupidly say stupid one more time stupid. LOL.

AS IF I would intentionally colour it to be illegible. Sheesh. I like blue - matches the colour of my eyes. Italics are nice too. I can read it easily.

Re-colour if you like, if not, then don’t. I won’t be. No skin. Suffice to say, you’ve deliberately made apples to oranges to lemons etc. comparisons to suit your argument and support your overt bias.

Who would disproportionately pivot on Liston’s early career broken jaw vs Marshall and then, as an analogy, pushing the irrational envelope further, claim Louis’ jaw was broken and then try to disclaim and say “no difference” if it wasn’t?

And who would call up an at least 40 years old, alcohol/drug addicted fighter’s KO loss - not to mention Liston having over twice the number of fights on his pro resume at that point in his career - take a bite out of that apple and don’t ignore it.

Usyk’s age as at his last fight only matters at this point - he was 34 yo - he beat Joshua, who isn’t all that and was already previously obliterated by Ruiz, 5 KDs en route to defeat. A once bitten and twice as shy Joshua looked bad in the rematch - against an even fatter, more out of shape Ruiz. Played it awfully safe, timid and still got rocked several times.

Anyway………..

 

Yeah this guy's always had an anti-Liston and anti-Williams agenda. I usually just ignore his posts in those threads tbh. Otherwise he's mostly a good poster.

 

Liston. He was a good boxer and would land his power shots at some point. But, it is close. Perhaps 60/40

I just have to see one or two more fights with Uzyk to know more about how he hangs with top Heavies.

 

True, he is a good poster. Glad you said it. I’m just playfully sparring, no malice. Let it not be lost that Usyk is a breath of fresh no matter how we individually think he compares historically - I wanna see him fight again but when will that be? The reduction in fight volume and frequency these days starves the fans.

 

You keep throwing you’re opinions around without proof and seem so adamant about them, my ‘laughable opinions’? Well that’s your opinion, I could say the same about you, but I’m not, we all have our opinion, but you seem to think your opinion is final and no one else’s is, you’re not open to interpretation at all
Back to the topic, again I’m not saying Usyk was stronger than Liston or Liston is stronger than Usyk, I’m saying this reputation that Liston is strong and especially that he would be strong today against modern Heavyweights is not backed up by anything at all, he looked strong against men 10-20lbs lighter than himself, but who wouldn’t? He never showed it against anyone as big as Usyk, people think he would be because they’ve seen him look strong against much smaller or scared men, that backs up **** all in terms of his strength compared to Usyk’s, it’s just doesn’t

 

I think Usyk has all the tools to beat Liston, but that jab and technically sound offense would be dangerous.

I also don't get why people talk so much about the size, Usyk and Liston are roughly the same size, with Usyk being taller and Liston sturdier.