Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

They don't unless the fighter is cutting a lot of weight and fighting in a division well below their natural adult frame then start adding weight as they go up.

A fully grown (at least 20 year old) man whose a solid 210 lbs (no beer gut, flabs, or udders) whose feather fisted isn't going to suddenly hit like Shavers even if he adds 20 lbs of muscle and improves his punching technique. The difference would be marginal at best.

 

A PED enhanced modern Ali's fights would look like a Marvel superhero toying with a civilian.

 

Yup. And it still rings true

 

Marciano was an attrition puncher whose high KO rate was due his staying tightly in the NE ham and egg circuit for the bulk of his career.

 

Liston hit a lot harder than Marciano, it`s just that Marciano threw more punches and Liston threw more jabs.

 

Those one punch “attrition” kayos of Layne and Walcott were due to the NE ham and egg circuit?

I guess the “attrition” really got to Mathews as well?

 

If you're referring to the first Walcott fight, it took him 13 grueling rounds to grind Walcott down before Rocky caught Walcott with a vicious shot he didn't see coming backing up against the ropes looking to land a counter. Walcott had taken plenty of damage leading up to the finish. I have serious doubts he is counted out taking that same punch in the 1st round.

The 2nd Walcott fight was clearly a quit job. He simply did not want to continue. The forum is unanimous on this and we voted on it.

 

Walcott fought a tremendous fight against Rocky. The forum is unanimous on that too.

with that performance Walcott gives any great fighter a life and death fight.

name one guy Liston beat who was so good as Walcott was against Rocky on the night Sonny beat them?

That Walcott performance beats any man Sonny ever beat.

The finishing punch, landing the way it did, just as Walcott was turning into throwing his own right hand, would absolutely knocked out Walcott in the first round. One hundred percent.

Rocky did catch Joe with a similar punch earlier in the fight, the one that was captured on camera and wrongly confused with the real finisher, that did not knock him out. But that is not because walcott was fresher or less fatigued. It was because the impact was different.

please watch that again. It is clear to see that the timing on impact was perfect and much harder that time around. The positioning of Rocky in the 13th round at the point of impact shows that he beat Walcott to the draw with a shorter punch with everything on it even though they both fired at the same time.

it is unusual to see that kind of impact at top level. Because better fighters are better at anticipating each other and adjusting themselves in time. The openings are harder to make. Rocky was perfect there. A rare one punch finish at world level. Tricking Walcott with his distance.

you would be hard pushed to find a punch that short doing so much damage. Poor Walcott was out of minutes.

You guys trying to play down the power of Marcianos punch is really lame.

for all his short comings you cannot knock Rocky for two handed power and the positioning required to make a shorter punch work at the right distance against longer armed fighters.

 

Knock out wins in six of seven title fights lol can’t all be ham and eggers but his overall competition was lower then some. Marciano is an attrition puncher myth continues. Attrition fighters don’t have that high a KO percentage. What’s more likely is Marcianos accuracy wasn’t all that great and would hit opponents anywhere. Especially being he would have to cut the gap to get in. He has too many one punch KOs to be considered an attrition puncher. Actually very few fighters have as many one punch KOs over quality opposition. There’s literally only like a handful of men who finishes opponents quicker then Marciano so that kind of destroys your theory as well.

 

Whoa, calm down, I didn't ask for an essay about how great Walcott was.

All I said was that neither Rocky vs Walcott matches were true 1 punch KO victories. The term is a bit misleading anyways. There is no reason at all to believe a desperate punch Rocky threw after pounding away at Walcott for 13 rounds would KO him in the 1st. That wasn't the first, second, or even 10th right hand Rocky landed on Walcott. You are dismissing the prior damage Rocky did acting as if he never landed anything of substance and then suddenly turned Walcott's lights out with the first solid hit.

 

A short offensive fighter with bad accuracy who can't fight backing up would be committing suicide against Liston.

 

A fighter's power can vary from minute to minute, a lot depends on what he is trying to do. I watched some Jimmy Young recently so I'll use him as an example. Lots of times Young was "defensive boxing" and he kept his right hand in front of his face, elbows away from his body, and kept his body more "squared." I doubt that Shavers or Wilder could punch with their right hand if they held it in front of their face, elbows out, and did not "blade" their body. When Young decided to punch (Foreman fight) he could put his right hand beside his jaw, blade his body, shift his weight and hurt people. He stunned Foreman a few times and dropped him when he saw the chance to go on offense.

Just because a fighter is not a known puncher doesn't mean that he can't punch. Top boxers have been working on punching for years and when they want to, most can punch. I don't remember anybody ever just walking through Young, Chris Byrd, etc. Those guys hit hard enough to get their opponent's respect and if they decided to turn into their punch and shift their weight they can do more than that.

 

But shouldn’t Rocky get credit for his other KOs? Matthews? Louis? Layne? Charles 2? Vingo? Some were systemic beat downs like Lastarza and Don C and Moore but some were just excellent KOs that displayed great power.
James Jeffries was an attrition puncher taking like 12 rounds to Ko opponents. Marciano did it in much fewer rounds (think an average 5 or 6 if I remember correctly) Think Liston was like 4.5 rounds. So really the difference wasn’t all to substantial.

 

I have stated numerous times I probably slightly favor Liston for this one…just slightly. I don’t think it’s a suicide by Foreman but it has its own draw backs. The scary thing for Rocky against Liston is NOT Listons jab. It’s his awesome in fighting and ability to apply pressure at any distance. I think If Marciano can weather the early storm he makes it a fight similar to Tua v Ike. Actually those two may have been a perfect example of what would happen. They were both actually pretty close to each other in style power height and reach.