So I was bored watching an Ali fight...

I could do the same thing you're doing. Taking a moment, or
a round of a fight. for instance Conn , all 175 lbs of him repeatedly
hurting Louis, including having him all but ko'ed in the 12th rd
of their 1st fight. Put the 6'3" 215 lbs Ali in Conn's place .
Ali, bigger, stronger and faster than Conn with a far better boxing
IQ , And say Louis "Cough,Cough" the offensive "Power house"
Couldn't get rid of pesky Conn until he got stupid, was actually
losing the fight until he did.
Ali by" double homicide"
But we all know (Or should) Boxing is lot more complicated than
a opponent having a few good moments against a superior fighter.
Ali's disdain for Foster's ability to hurt him was
clearly evident in that 2nd rd. He practically
dared Foster to hit him. ( And of course he did)
But Foster, (A natural heavyweight, unlike Conn) Couldn't bulge
Ali. I wonder if Foster landed the same shots on Louis would he
be able to take them?
Of course Louis wouldn't allow Foster to just tee off on him and
take that risk trying to prove a point. And Ali would never take
Louis that lightly if he were the opponent.

 

Ah Ree. Ah Ree. Ah Ree.

 

One of those fights when Muhammad never needed to move out of first gear.

 

Think your looking into this too much Journeyman92.

 

he look the horrible in the fight. Ali when he look bad he look horrible bad very terrible rubbish garbage ****
but when he look his best he look great "as anything '

 

Louis did good job in classic all timer fight with Billy Pittsburgh Kid Conn!

 

I too have been a bit underwhelmed watching some of Ali's work on youtube.
He was a fine fighter indeed, certainly one of the best just on resume alone.
But he has been shamelessly hyped up by fan boys over the years ...
before YouTube I just had to take them at their word, but once I was able to watch and study his fights for myself I did, and tbh it was a bit of a let down after all the hype.
I will admit, most of his stuff on video is from the 70s when he'd slowed down some, but people make him out to be some Willie Pepp/Pernell Whitaker type defense genius, and I just have never seen it. Not even in the older black and white film from the 60s.
He did have above average hand speed, but nothing like the Manny Pacquiao speed that get bestowed upon on him.
And people still act like he would walk over any other HW in history without barely getting touched.
I wonder if they've ever actually watched him fight for themselves, or are they just going off what they've been told.
Bottom line, defensive, elusive geniuses don't finish their careers with brain damage and parkinson's before the age of 40.
Guys like Floyd and b Hop slowed down too over the back halves of their careers. They still avoided taking that type of punishment.
So no, I've never seen Ali as the defensive savant with blazing hand speed as everyone makes him out to be. He does props for fighting everyone under the sun, but he's not the untouchable, indestructible, maniacal wizard he is made out to be

 

No one is. I must point out that Ali certainly had far better than above average hand speed, please watch the 60s videos again.

Some of the Ali mystique was based upon the WAY he fought. He wasn't an elite defensive wizard, but he was nonetheless highly evasive at his peak in many ways...he moved at times more like a dancer than a pug, and did unorthodox things like lean back from punches, etc. Those things are mostly commonplace today because of him.

There are fighters whom would have given him fits, though I doubt they'd beat him: prime Holmes, Louis, maybe Marciano, Steward-era Lewis, and quite possibly Patterson 1-era Liston. I'll confess not seeing any of the other Champs beating his mid 60s incarnation either...except FOTC Frazier, and that having to do at least as much with Joe's intense hatred and determination as much as his style.

 

Ali got a lot more hittable as he aged but Louis's KO record wasn't much to write home about once he reached his mid 30's either. Of course you can find plenty of moments in the ageing Louis's fights where he didn't look a "powerhouse".

And you can of course find moments where even the prime Louis looked great. No one does all the time.

But Ali was past his best and in pretty poor shape (highest weight to that date, some 15-20 lbs over his best) and still scored a shut out over a top 5 contender. Not sure how that shows how overrated he is.

 

I appreciate this post by someone relatively new to the sport.

As someone who started watching boxing during Ali's second reign, I always rooted for him to lose when he defended the title. He seemed beatable the whole time.

I did appreciate him even more after he retired, though.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ali's terrible state after he retired is actually what damaged the sport in the U.S. and led to fewer young men taking up the sport.

You can't hold someone up as the best ever in sport, and see him totally unable to speak or barely able to walk at age 50, and expect young kids to go 'YEAH, I want to end up like that."

Ali's condition when he retired was terrible for the sport. Just awful.

Think of how different it would've been if it was Ali calling fights on HBO instead of George Foreman in the 80s and 90s? How would it be if Ali was calling the wars between Bowe and Holyfield?

Ali was a pretty great boxer in the 1960s, but even then, people who had been watching boxing for years thought he was doing everything wrong. They could see all the flaws in his game. But he dominated, so it didn't matter so much.

Once he slowed down in the 70s and became more a target, the flaws in his technique hurt him - like they do with everyone who has flaws in their game.

What made me give Ali more credit than I think you're giving him is Ali was never known by most of the people who praised him as being the big, physically strong man he actually was. Ali didn't have big muscles like Norton and Joshua and those guys, but he could be quite a brutal puncher. He actually stopped brutal punchers like George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Sonny Liston, Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry (twice) ... and he often did it with two bad hands.

His hands were in such bad shape he had to have injections in them before his fights so they would be numb. Often, when he looks like he's just tapping a guy, it's because his hands were just in terrible pain.

But what impressed me the most, in hindsight, having been someone who rooted for Ali to lose for years, is that even when he looked bad, most guys I was rooting for to beat him, even on their best nights, simply couldn't.

You can say Ali doesn't look as slick as I thought. Or Ali looks lazy in that fight. Or Ali doesn't look like he's trying much. But his opponents certainly were trying. And they tended to always be in their best shape when facing him. It was a big night for them. Probably the biggest in their careers. And they often couldn't beat the bad version of Ali who showed up.

So, as someone who rooted against him while he was fighting, I actually viewed his career in a better light afterward.

And as new people come to the sport, I'm always curious how they view some of these guys. Because Ali doesn't look good in a lot of fights.

And, because of that, I think, as the years go on, Ali will likely drop down in the all-time heavyweight ratings and younger, newer fighters will replace him at the top, as it should be.

 

Ali wasn't a technician , Ali was all natural skill .. his speed of leg and movement was his defense and he was much, much harder to hit in the 60's .. a different fighter .. he also was fighting an unusual style for that second round against Foster ... if you rate him number one or not there ks little doubt that Ali was one of the very top heavyweights of all time straight to person day if the playing field is leveled .. he was fighting Foster at 226 here not even seriously trained .. he without question today could have been 235 and still lightning fast .. at 6'3" w an 80" reach and extremely naturally strong he was a beast ..