Why do some people try to claim Mike Tyson couldn't hang with today's "giants"?

Steve Cunningham, another "small" 6'3" fighter

 

In a step-up fight, relatively green, Fury switched tactics on 6'3" Cunningham, and proceeded to rag doll him around the ring before Knocking him out.

Elite level skilled 6'3" Usyk beat 6'6" Joshua. Remember Mike is/was 5'10". Consider, a big heavyweight for his era, Frank Bruno was 6'2"...

Andy Ruiz (who has nearly 10cm and 40lbs on Mike) scored one of the biggest upsets in history, then got beaten wide with relative ease in the rematch. So...

 

Cunningham wouldn't be a top fighter in Tysons era. He is mediocre and was on the wrong side of 30 against Fury

Usyk outboxed Joshua. Tyson would go for his jugular and Joshua doesn't have the boxing ability or the style to keep Tyson off of him. It's as if you think Tyson would land zero punches on Joshuas chin because the size difference is large. The speed difference and ring iq between Tyson and AJ is also quite large and ss we know with Joshua, Tyson only needs one or a few and Joshua would be hurt bad. And because Joshua has terrible recovery and a mediocre gas tank he'd be stopped.

Now Fury, thats a tough one for Tyson, i wouldn't argue if you think Fury beats him

Ruiz has 40 pounds of fat on Tyson and 2 inches. Him being so fat is the reason why his feet are so slow and him being 20 pounds fatter than fight one is one of the reasons why couldn't catch up to Joshua in the rematch like he did the first time.

We all know he is obviously not 6'2 as compared to Arreola and looks about 6 foot or 6'1 at best. Tyson is also worlds more technical and athletic than Ruiz, has the superior defense by far and hits harder. He beats everyone in this era apart from maybe Fury

 

So you are saying Cunningham isn't a useful example after all lol

You mentioned history.

History shows the division has only been going one way. We could also look at famous David v Goliath fights that have taken place at the elite end of the division:

Baer v Carnera was at most 5 inches.
Frazier v Ali was 5 inches.
You can add Joshua v Ruiz Jr. If you like, that was at most 5 inches.
Willard v Dempsey was 5~6 inches
Tyson v Tucker is 7 inches (note they both weighed 221lbs) - great win over the distance.

Tyson v Joshua is 8 inches
and personally I think weight would be the bigger factor, as Tyson would start to struggle with the weight gap not just the height, as history shows he did.

Tyson v Wilder is 9 inches, with Wilder comfortable operating at and over 230lbs.

Tyson v Fury is ...

You get my point

Edit: Regarding the match ups you described, imho Tyson gets stopped by upper cuts from Joshua and Fury. It's possible he outpoints Wilder, but if he gets touched, I think Wilder stops him.

 

Nah nah i didn't say that, i mentioned Cunningham was mediocre. Fury beating him shouldn't be used as an argument against the fact that he struggled with such a mediocre and not only that but got hurt, yet Cunningham wasn't known for power at all.

Because heavyweights are getting bigger does not mean smaller heavyweights can't be competitive ? If thats what you're pertaining too then it's quite a funny assumption considering recent events.

The fact is what recent fighter has any attributes that resemble Mike Tyson ? Nobody in any division. Let alone heavyweight. Even if you were to say that Tyson is a cruiserweight, who at cruiserweight has/had Tysons attributes ? Nobody. Realistically you or I don't know how the super heavyweights would handle someone like a late 80s-early 90s prime Tyson considering his ridiculous abilities, power, and speed, even if he is small. There weren't any modern cruiserweights that were similar to Ali or Holmes either except Usyk. David Haye was decent but look at that resume, even at cruiserweight it's not impressive. Huck and Briedis were pretty good but based in the eye test i don't see think being in the big top 5 of the 70s

 

Well I would say, you shouldn't use Cunningham as an example of anything, given the stage of Fury's career and also given we have seen him eat shots repeatedly from Wilder.
It's kind of like choosing when Prime Tyson gets to fight opponents, and typically it seems to be at points in their career where they haven't been their best.

Yeah, I am happy to leave it at that, as you say (and with any fantasy match up) we would never know for sure. Though I'm curious now, do you think Prime Tyson beats Lennox?

By the way, I shouldn't have left off
Sam Langford v Harry Wills (7~8 inches). Though it is fair to say Wills came out on top in the end.

 

Yep.

 

Well Cunningham isn't near the level of the greats and he has no power. That was the point. Fury has also been hurt by Wallin and other fighters that aren't known for power. He don't need to be a big puncher to hurt Fury but he has good recovery abilities

I don't think he would, but neither would anyone in this era, and Tyson would still have a good chance because he had ridiculous speed and power in his prime

 

Prime Tyson takes them all......

 

Tyson is just a Peek-a-boo. I think todays heavyweights would simply learn the textbook to beat his style. Tyson would have a puncher chance but most of the time would lose. He was very easily neutralised against fighters who knew how to beat him.

Saying Tyson would beat current champions is the same as calling them pure incompetents and idiots. Are they?

 

Name me one heavyweight fighter since Mike Tyson that Is as quick, powerful, the ability to use both hands perfectly, speed, chin, head movement and ferocity as Mike Tyson.

Please don't say AJ or Fury...Please.

Mike Tyson beats everyone today except Usyk.

Thank you.

 

People favoring fighters & eras always tend to irrationally say their guy or time will certainly win.
So I agree with much of what you say.
But you are likewise cherry-picking when you take 2 bad Lewis losses, ignore even more by Wlad, & use that as evidence not of what could happen, but say others like the K-Brothers must have been better based on extremely selective & biased readings.
I actually like the older brother head to head more than most, but he did not do enough in terms of how many & who he fought to say he would beat Lewis.

Lastly, it is not reasonable to present Tyson as a PED cheat without any reason.
This is called "asserting a premise absent evidence".
Except your sole argument that nobody could be his prime size & natural.
He was likely 5'10.5", his peak weights from 214-221, pretty lean.
Not body building competition, under 5% BF lean though.

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I have submitted links many times that show this is within the capacity of people with his bone structure.
He was near his max weight when somewhat younger than as champion, he was pretty bulky as a poor 13 year old before doing any weights.
If you were around weightlifting gyms for years you would be more likely to know that both some folks use & do not look like it, heavy or never get very big...
And some are natural & get very bulky-if you know the history of boxing you can find examples of this even before either modern weigh training & nutrition knowledge...

Or before steroids were even invented.
Not just occasional big guys like Carnera the strong man.
McVey was fairly lean, Tyson's height, 205-220 lbs...
Think he could not have put on a bit more muscle if he ever actually did any weightlifting or had even the benefit of Tyson's nutrition & knowledge of training?
He even looked a lot like Tyson.

Jack Johnson paid for his grave.
He died 14 years before any steroid was even synthesized.
[url]https://www.google.com/search?q=sam+*******+boxer&client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=2HCYYuzWEM37wbkP9fii-Ac&ved=0ahUKEwjsooD_qI74AhXNfTABHXW8CH8Q4dUDCA0&uact=5&oq=sam+*******+boxer&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQghEKABOggIABCABBCwAzoHCAAQHhCwAzoICAAQsAMQhgM6BQgAEIAEOgYIABAeEBY6BQgAEIYDOgUIIRCrAkoECEEYAUoECEYYAFC0BFioEmDeE2gCcAB4AIABaogBogSSAQM2LjGYAQCgAQHIAQfAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz[/url]

 

I have differed with you about other things, but you are right on point here.
Also Wilder has a 12" wingspan advantage on Tyson.
I still would not favor him against Tyson, but it is hard to know how such differently built & unusual fighters would match up.
Due to his weight for his height, he is not really a SHW, & Tyson has far more muscle for his size, most dramatically in the lower body.

 

Frank Bruno wad 6ft3+

Look at him standing next to Lennox Lewis or Joshua. Definately strong posture.

Ruiz is not 6ft2 either

 

Tyson for sure under Rooney beats all these oafs