Was Marvis Frazier That Bad?

A guy from my neighborhood had an offer to fight Marvis Frazier. Jimmy Clark turned it down cause he wanted more $. Clark had been an excellent amateur as well. I didn't understand why he would turn that down. He might of beaten Marvis.

 

You knew Jimmy Clark?

 

I was much younger. Didn't know him really but we looked up to him.

 

Nice. Did you meet him often or learn much of anything? Also, I get that, I used to worship the myths of Benitez I heard as a kid thinking I'd leave high school and become champion of the world in a few years. What a foolish person I am LOL.

 

I was able to watch him spar when I wanted to. Many felt he got a raw deal vs Stevenson in at least 2 of those fights. Clark was college educated which is rare for boxing and not the norm on the streets of Coatesville.

 

Here's a piece on Marvis and Joe before the Larry Holmes fight and Joe giving reasons for taking over from George Benton and Joe doesn't pull his punches. You can tell he still had some resentment from When Eddie Futch and George Benton trained him and pulled him out from the Thrilla in Manila.

Joe Frazier Was walking briskly through the labyrinthe corridors of Caesars Palace, pausing now and then to bark instructions to his aids over a walkie-talkie, or stopping to chat with a fan.

A Man bent by age managed to touch him as he went by. "Joe, you just made my whole day," he said, and limped off.

Joe entered the big conference room that has been converted into a training gym for his son, Marvis, who will fight WBC heavyweight champion Larry Holmes in a non-sanctioned title match Friday night. "Hey, Blood," Joe yelled to a familiar face in the gallery.

"Hiya, Joe," the man responded. "I've been watching your son. He fights like you, bobbin' and weavin' and rollin' those shoulders. Yead, just like you, Joe."

"Yeah," said Joe, "but he's goin' to be better." Joe and Marvis. Marvis and Joe. One and the same. But therein lies the problem. Marvis, the fighter, cannot be his father, the former heavyweight champ, not matter how hard the old man tries to mold him in his image.

WHEN MARVIS WAS a national Golden Gloves champion and seemingly destined to follow in his father's footsteps in winning an Olympic gold medal, he was being trained and schooled by George Benton, a clever, scientific middleweight in the late fifties. Benton thought it best to capitalize on Marvis's height, reach and athletic ability rather than to copy his father's hell-bent, aggressive style. To keep the peach, Marvis told the media, "It's hard to describe my style. I'd like to be a combination of my pop and Muhammad Ali."

That wasn't what Joe wanted to hear ... or see. As he said yesterday, after seeing Marvis's workout, "I was watching Marvis back then, and I didn't like what was going on. You can't make him fight like George Benton when he's my son. George was a good boxer in his time, but he was always a contender, a second-class citizen. I was a champion, and I'm going to make Marvis one, too.

"Before, I'd see Marvis working out in the ring and know somethin' was wrong. I knew he shouldn't be standing up straight like that, and covering up instead of attacking. I had to make changes. Marvis came from me. I didn't come from Marvis. The boy can box, too. He may look a little different than me in the ring, but he's all of me. He's mine."

Frazier, who once toured the country with a rock group and also invested time and money in a restaurant, now centers all his attention on Marvis's boxing career.

"I keep hearing people say, 'Joe is reliving his life through Marvis,' "he said with that once-familiar sneer. "Hey, I'm not relivin' nothing. I'm not dead yet. I'm jsut taking my place as his father. There's a lot of Sugar Daddys around, but you seldom see a real father." Joe and Marvis. Marvis and Joe, a man and his shadow.

THE BOY FIRST became aware of his father' celebrity status when he was 8 and his elementary school classmates were fitted with paper crowns to pay tribute to his father at a special assembly where they would chant, "One, two, three, four. Who are we for? Joe Frazier," and Marvis flushed with embarrassment.

The next vivid memory was more painful. Marvis was 15 and sitting in his father's corner at the Nassau Coliseum, watching him get his head pounded by a brute name George Foreman. Marvis wept while helping drag his father's body back to the corner.

"He figured he let us down, but he didn't let me down," Marvis recalled. "My father had always been my idol, and I felt he was unbeatable. But that night, I discovered he wasn't Superman and that he made mistakes. It was the first time I realized he was human, but it also made me more ambitious. It was like I was telling him. 'Now that we've finished going through your scrapbook, we cant start working together on mine.'"

Later, the roles would be reversed. As an amateur, Marvis won 51 of 53 fights, losing only to Tony Tubbs and ponderous James Broad, who knocked him out in the 1980 Olympic trials and raised the first doubts about whether Marvis had inherited his Father's fighting genes.

"That knockout helped bring me closer to my father," Marvis said. "He had watched me in the gym before, but let others work with me. Now he began paying strict attention to me."

Strict, very strict. There were times early in Marvis's development when father and son would wage brutal, head-turning wars int he gym. Even today, on occasion, Joe climbs in the ring to get a point across.


"I DON'T MIND sparring with him," Marvis said. "We dont hold back. He always tells me, 'If you see me make a mistake, take advantage of it, 'cause I sure will if you make one.'"

Joe and Marvis. Marvis and Joe, inseparable. In one of his first 10-rounders, Marvis showed signs of fatigue in the late rounds. He plopped down on his stool and heard his father say, "Want me to take the last three rounds?" Marvis laughed and said, "No thanks, Pop. I think I've got it."

Does he really have it? After only 10 fights and a total of 54 rounds as a professional, Marvis, 23, hardly seems ready for Holmes, even if the Champion shows signs of wear and tear on his 34-year-old body. Said Eddie Futch, Who trained Joe Frazier but now works in Holmes's corner, "I think Marvis should have waited to take his shot. Even if he were to win, he'll wind up having to fight a bunch of far more experienced fighters than himself. And it would take its toll, just like it did on Leon Spinks after he beat Ali. He just wasn't ready."

Larry Holmes is more succinct. "Only reason Marvis got this fight is because his name is Frazier," the Champion said. "But I'm not fighting Joe. I'm fighting Marvis. And I wouldn't be fighting the kid if the father had made it as a singer."

Cruel, real cruel. But Joe Frazier doesn't flinch. "Bloodlines will tell Friday night," he said. "Waid and see." And he punched th air for emphasis.

https://imgur.com/yZxbPuD

 

Lot of ego there from Joe.

 

Joe doesn't sound as classy and humble as I remember.

 

Larry Holmes is more succinct. "Only reason Marvis got this fight is because his name is Frazier," the Champion said. "But I'm not fighting Joe. I'm fighting Marvis. And I wouldn't be fighting the kid if the father had made it as a singer."

 

Like a lot of fighters, Marvis was as good as anyone not called Mike Tyson or Larry Holmes.

If Frazier hadn’t fought either of those guys he could have been a belt holder.

who the hell says Marvis couldn’t have beaten Page, Tubs, Dokes, weaver, Spinks?

he did beat Tubs and Witherspoon as an amateur and bones Smith in the pros anyway.

 

Nothing quite like a father's vanity.

 

Marvis was a very good fighter.

His amateur record was 56-2. He was the #1 U.S. amateur at heavyweight in 1979 and 1980.

As a pro, he was 19-2.

In his entire pro and amateur career, he only lost four times.

His two losses at amateur were to Tony Tubbs and to James Broad (in Marvis' last amateur fight). Marvis also beat Tubbs as an amateur. He also beat Tim Witherspoon as an amateur as well as Mitch Green.

Marvis also avenged his loss to Broad as a pro.

As a father and son, both Joe Frazier and Marvis hold a win over Joe Bugner.

If Marvis had gone after the WBA belt instead of taking on Holmes, Marvis probably would've been one of the champs on that side like Tubbs, Witherspoon, Smith and Page were. Marvis beat Smith a few months before Smith won the WBA belt from Witherspoon.

Marvis was just as good as most of the WBA champs from the 80s. He just wasn't as good as Holmes and Tyson.

 

Exactly.

 

That's a funny line from Larry. And true about Marvis' name being one of the reasons NBC bought the fight. But Larry defended against a lot of guys with only a handful of fights, and none of their dads were singers, either.

 

I used to always root for Jimmy Clark when he was on TV.