If John Conteh had faced mandatory WBC challenger Miguel Angel Cuello on May 21 1977?

Honestly I'd love to discuss this, as I'm a big fan of this era especially regarding Light Heavyweights. But I've never seen a full fight of Cuello, only little snippets here and there.

I know Cuello's biggest win was against Jesse Burnett, who was a very late substitute. I know Cuello was down in that fight aswell, and I tend to think a fully fit Burnett may of beaten Cuello.

The fight against Parlov was strange, I've actually seen the ending. And the left hand didn't seem that hard of a punch, yet Cuello went down like a sack of potatoes.

Judging from their records, and what footage I have seen of Cuello. I don't think Cuello's style would pose much of a problem for Conteh, and i agree with your prediction of a late stoppage for Conteh.

As for Cuello retiring why was that ? I seem to remember hearing he was embarrassed by his performance. And he probably had alot to live up to, with the great Monzon another fellow Argentian.

 

I don’t know anything about this situation.

Why did Conteh turn it down? Seems like a bad career move.

Of course he ended up fighting Parlov, who beat Cuello, and losing a close decision.

But why did he duck Cuello?

 

Providing John stayed injury free,he would have stopped Cuello. Shame about the way John's career panned out. He's always been one of my favourites. I've said this before and I'll say it again - If John had remained focused on his career and avoided "out of the ring" distractions,he may well have become one of the all time great 175lb men. We'd have been talking about him in the same breath as Spinks,Foster etc. John had the talent to beat Saad Muhammad,Eddie Mustafas Muhammad and a few others at the top around that time.

 

To be fair I actually think Conteh did beat Muhammad in their 1st meeting, I love Muhammad as a fighter. But didn't Muhammad's corner cheat by using an illegal substance, for a cut on Muhammad's eye ?

 

Hi Richard.
To my mind Conteh would I believe had the beating of Cuello, and I also foresee a stoppage mid rounds, his career and life story do not pan out to the expectations of his fans, and the public in general, his good looks fine physique, and all round charm was hard not to like, he also had a cheeky sense of humor , which now shows in is after dinner turns.
He was coming along nicely with wins over Finnigan, and the eventual winning of the title in a hard fought 15 rounder ( I was there ) against Ahumada , made a few defenses against good opposition, then the troubles started, his many brothers bent his ears about how the cartel ( Duff/Barrett/Lawless ) were not paying him his worth, they were prop correct in that assertion, and he could earn much more by going freelance, he was conflicted and unsure as to what path to follow, he eventually chose to cut his ties with the above, and station himself abroad, in the short term the USA.
He signed up for a first fight with Willie " The Bull " Taylor a teak tough strong as an ox LHW, the problems started when he parted company with George Francis his long term trainer, like many fighters Conteh had small, slender hands that were susceptible to bruising and swelling, Francis had perfected a way to bandage his hands so as to cause minimal damage in long gruelling fights, so he didn't have the revered trainer tending to his piano playing mitts.
As a consequence John,s hands were not protected like they were back in the UK, sure enough he broke some bones in his vaunted right, and severely bruised his left, to the extent his right needed complex surgery and a pin inserted to help the broken bones knit together, needless to say the offending right hand caused him distress for the remainder of his career, and thus he didn't punch with the same power and authority of his early fights, the damaged hands plagued him till his last fight, had his right been fully 100% he might, just might have beaten Saad in the 1st fight.
Have met and spoke to him a few times at various functions' and he comes across as happy and contented, and at peace with himself.
stay safe guys.

 

Unless some kind of injury, JC should win this. Either on points or late ko.
As so many other great posters here have mentioned, if things had happened differently and John didn't suffer the life style issue s he did, then he could have being up there with the very best of the light heavy s.

 

The injury to the right hand cost him one-third of his punching arsenal, leaving him with only his (very deft and educated) left and his battering-ram head butts as his weapons to cause damage.

John was a very dirty fighter. Without the head butts, I think he probably loses a couple of others (in those days for the most part unless blatantly, obviously intentional a stoppage on head butt cuts didn’t go to the scorecards, it was just a TKO same as if they’d been caused by punches).

He got a very friendly draw with Jesse Burnett (who knocked him down twice) and the Parlov loss. Gave a good account in the close points loss to Saad Muhammad in the first go-around, although he faded late and was battered pretty thoroughly, and an absolute non-effort in the rematch. At least once there he went down seemingly out of fear without getting hit … more anticipating of a punch that ended up grazing or missing altogether where it looked like he was just trying to find a soft spot.

I find Conteh one of the more romanticized fighters on this forum, especially among Brits. His really only semi-major scalp IMO was Ahumada, who didn’t actually accomplish much in his own career apart from being sturdy and available vs. a very old and fading Bob Foster. Somehow this win gets treated like JC had defeated prime Foster and I just don’t get it.

Conteh had a style that was very pleasing to the eye (head butts aside) and he seemed to come along at just the right time to give UK boxing a nice lift on the world scene, but I think on the whole he is overrated.

 

I’m replying to this but not @Dynamicpuncher directly as he merely asked a suggestive question, but what I’m about to post applies to sentiments expressed about this fight and others (Ali-Cooper I for instance, although slightly different) and it gives me an opportunity to discuss it.

The idea that ‘cornerman uses illegal substance’ (in this case non-approved cut salve, in Ali-Cooper smelling salts) = disqualification of the fighter is a leap.

In this case, the cornermen who provided and used the cut medicine had their licenses suspended in accordance with New Jersey rules, which is proper. The WBC declared it a no contest (which the state did not) and ordered a rematch (which took place).

The cornermen are the ones breaking the rules, not the fighter. And if the penalty for such is not spelled out in the rulebook as one which calls for an automatic DQ then saying ‘well they cheated, should have been a DQ’ is not a proper conclusion.

Some rule breaches are penalized by DQ — pretty much ones in which a fighter breaks the rules of combat repeatedly and has points deducted and continues breaking the rules. Others are handled through fines, suspensions, licenses being pulled, etc. The rulebooks for each jurisdiction should and usually do spell out penalties. Often it’s at the discretion of the referee and rarely if ever is there an ‘automatic DQ’ spelled out in the rulebook.

Bottom line in this case is Conteh caused the cuts with head butts. The disallowed substance allowed Saad to keep from getting stopped on cuts, which allowed him to settle it with his fists — which should be the preferred outcome in any fight.

Penalties were assessed (against the cornermen). The WBC granted Conteh a rematch, in which he was ravaged. IMO, justice was done.

 

MIguel Cuello one of my faves from childhood. Couldn't feel worse than when I saw him lose close to Clottleby. But this other dude...missing out hard on one of the biggest earners ever. If he your dude and you box, why in the world would you turn that opportunity down? Get them peas and carrots!

 

I had Saad winning by one or two rounds. Shame as I really wanted John to win. If he'd been at his best he'd have decisioned or even stopped Muhamnmad.

 

Well you leave out his win against Yaqui Lopez a seemingly much vaunted fighter on here who Conteh beat virtually one handed.
Also the first Saad fight if they don’t use the illegal substance the fights stopped and there’s a win on the resume which immediately elevates it.
I get where you’re coming from though John was a sort of could’ ve would’ve , should’ve.

 

Fair play on the Lopez win. It’s a nice win but Yaqui’s entire story is coming up short in the big ones.

We don’t know that the fight would have been stopped — could be that approved cut medicine would hace stopped the cuts or that they wouldn’t have been quite bad enough to stop it. And that advantage was only gained through Conteh head butts so I’m glad it wasn’t stopped … no way to win a fight.