I know this question is as old as time and I doubt we'll ever know the answer. I think Liston really had a bad shoulder in fight #1. Fight #2 I think Liston took a dive. I'd like to see other opinions. Thanks
We will never know, there is several speculations on this matter. Sonny Liston was thick with the underworld, he began talking too much about this subject as far as 1969 to anyone who would listen. It is possible that he was rubbed out by his underworld buddies, a mob hit to shut him up. Comparable to what Jack Ruby, a known underworld hit man from Chicago did to Lee Harvey Oswald on Nov 24 1963 in front of the whole world, watching it live on television on that Sunday morning.
Last I checked there is plenty of medical evidence that Liston hurt his shoulder and was treated for it after the 1st fight. Unlike Manny Pacquiao, he never claimed God healed it for him or that he swam in salt water. No HW champion had ever quit on his stool without there being a very obvious, gruesome injury and Liston was perceived as an invincible monster similar to peak Tyson in the 80's so few accepted it. Ali had a tricky style and made Liston just barely miss which can sometimes make the opponent pull a muscle or throw out their shoulder by overextending. Fight 2, the phantom punch did indeed land and you can see the ripples going through Listons body. The knockdown was legitimate and Ali produced multiple knockdowns on other opponents with the exact same right hand over the jab counter (for example, against Folley). The question isn't if the punch was legitimate (although you still have some blind people who claim nothing landed), the question is if it did enough damage to keep Liston on the ground for a 10 count. The biggest issue is that Walcott made the horrible decision to end a fight due to the words of a ring side reporter (who had absolutely no authority) claiming the fight should be stopped because Liston was on the ground for more than 10 seconds as Walcott was trying to get Ali to go to a neutral corner. Those are the facts. This is my take: Fight 1: I think it was a combination of both Liston having a legitimate shoulder injury and severely underestimating Ali. We see on camera Liston predicting he would finish Ali within 2 rounds. His training camp was not very intense, seemingly just going through the motions. Liston also allegedly said between rounds "nobody told me he was THAT fast...!". It doesn't excuse Listons lack of preparation, but there was plenty of reason to doubt Ali was the real deal back then. He had went life and death with Doug Jones and was nearly KOd by Henry Cooper. There wasn't much else on his resume to really go crazy over at the time. Yes Ali was a gold medalist and a very quick and flashy boxer, but the perception of the time was that he was just a big mouthed, feather fisted, glass jawed stick and move guy who'd get exposed as soon as he faced someone truly good who could hit hard and pressure him. Liston seemed to bring this attitude and perception of Ali into the ring with him and was completely embarrassed. The possibility Liston tried to cheat by "juicing" his gloves to blind Ali tells me there obviously weren't plans for a fix. You usually need to do things like bribing judges, the ref, convincing the other guy to take a dive, etc. If they attempted to blind Ali and made comments about how shocked they were by his speed and went to the doctor for an injured shoulder, the possibility of a fix seems completely illogical. Fight 2: This one seems pretty simple. Liston had whipped himself into great shape in preparation, but Ali suffered a hernia causing a delay. This annoyed Liston who had a hard time staying in peak condition throughout the delay. It is also well documented Liston didn't have the same burning focus and spirit he did on his way to the title and had slipped up with alcohol and drugs. He also allegedly told Foreman he only continued to box for the money and was no longer passionate about it. The delay+Listons age, inactivity, lack of motivation, and substance abuse were the perfect ingredients for a quit job. There are numerous reports saying Liston didn't look so great in sparring leading up the the 2nd fight after the delay. I think after being nailed by the phantom punch, Liston just said "screw it" and didn't want to go through further embarrassment. Unless Liston managed to invoke the proverbial punchers chance, his only options were to either get stopped by Ali or to be humiliated chasing him around the ring once again before losing a lospided decision. He was getting paid anyways, so why not quit? Nobody gave him credit when he was champion and both the black and white communities of America despised him. It just wasn't worth the effort to dig deep and try to beat Ali.
Liston said he could have got up but since Ali didn't go a neutral corner he was afraid Ali would wallop him as he tried to get up.
Considering Liston did get up and resume for a little bit I don’t think the fix was in, probably. I buy that it was because Ali wouldn’t go to his corner it reminds me of how Oscar “Plato” Bonavena was robbed of his victory over Muhammad. The product known as Ali had to be preserved at all costs.
The way Liston just went back down again after getting to one knee has always convinced me that he took a dive.
Yeah, World Heavyweight title fights are often held in the hockey rink of a youth center in the middle of nowhere. Nothing fishy about that fight at all.
True, that looked so fake but did you notice when Liston did that, Ali was close by, about to complete a 2nd victory lap around the ring - maybe Liston thought “look out!”. Also, note that even though Ali beckons Liston to rise, It’s Ali himself who raises his arms and sets out on a victory lap even before Liston has been on the deck for 10 seconds. For as short as that fight was, there is a lot to take in.
I’ll try to find it again BUT there is an excellent vid. news piece, reporting on Liston’s training just days prior to the first scheduled fight in Boston - before the plug was pulled. As he was in the report, it seemed Liston was going to come in at a very nice 212 lbs for the fight (he was about 215 for Lewiston) and Sonny looked real good in the brief training clips shown - in terms of a both condition and performance. Okay, I’ll see if I can find it later.
Ali did that all the time. He would stand over his opponents with his victory pose and would prance around the ring after a knockdown. He did it against Williams and Bonavena I believe. Absolutely none of Alis behavior was unusual in either fight.
Muhammad Ali did it also against Zora Folley on March 22 1967 in Madison Square Garden after the 4 th round knockdown, Ali eventually stopped Zora in round 7.
Liston was confirmed to have had a ring injury going into the first bout. Add in his lack of ring time (6 minutes in three years), his age, lack of preparation, and it’s not hard to see why Liston faired the way he did. In their second fight it was a dive plain and simple IMO. I highly doubt even the knockdown was real. When Liston is hit, he puts his arm out to break the fall and looks for a comfortable spot to lay on the canvas. Even Ali himself didn’t believe it as He is later heard saying “did I hit him” and telling him to get up and that “nobody is gonna believe this.”
It was a minor league hockey arena. It at one time had ‘youth center’ on the name because it was a multipurpose arena. Jack Dempsey fought title fights in Shelby, Montana, and Boyles 30 Acres, whatever that was. Floyd Patterson defended at a minor league ballpark. Ezzard Charles held at least one defense at a minor league hockey arena. Muhammad Ali had off-brand defenses around the world in ridiculous venues. Where the fight was held had nothing to do with anything. It ended up in Lewiston after originally being planned for Boston. But the promotion was a disaster for many reasons: 1) Ali announced his name change and conversion to Islam. This wasn’t exactly popular. The Nation of Islam (aka Black Muslims) were seen as a militant organization and a threat by many. Not a lot of cities wanted a lot of black people they considered militants descending upon their populace, fearing riots or violence. 2) Liston got arrested not once but twice between the bouts. He was already considered by many an undesirable and a bad seed. 3) Liston had quit on his stool in the first fight. Some questioned whether it might have been a fix. Others probably just didn’t want to see a guy who had just quit (at the time it was almost unheard-of in a major fight without an obvious, plain-to-see injury) fight for the title again. 4) The WBA and some others withdrew recognition of the rematch as a title fight. Why? Because there was a rematch clause in the first fight, which the WBA did not allow and which many considered at that time a suspicious thing — figuring it gave Liston reason to throw the first fight because of a guaranteed purse for the second. 5) Liston’s promoter, which held the rights to promote the bout under the rematch agreement, it turned out, was not licensed in Massachusetts and thus Boston and the boxing commission there settled on this as a reason to disallow the bout on their soil. (Boston was long considered one of the most overtly racist cities in the country, which probably figured into this.) 6) Liston’s promotional group also had contractual obligations to hold the fight with numerous closed circuit locations across the country, and did not want to renege on those nor lose the rights to the rematch for not being able to promote it (probably because if Liston wins they’re again promoting the heavyweight champ) needed to find somewhere quickly. Lewiston emerged as available and willing, so off they went. Remember, this is a fight between two controversial black men — one because of his religious conversion and brash attitude (not the mold a lot of white America was accepting off from a black champion) and the other because of not only his criminal past, but the fact that he’s still getting himself arrested. It’s a match between two heels — two villains who the majority of people wanted to see BOTH lose if they had to fight at all. So there’s no rooting interest. And it’s a rematch of a dud. So it’s a fight nobody wanted and nobody really wanted to happen. It was a hard sell — actually, an impossible one. Nobody said, ‘hey we’re going to fix this fight so let’s find a small arena and maybe nobody will notice it ever happened.’ If they had done that, they would have pulled the plug on the closed circuit and made sure nobody would ever see it.
Yeah the idea that the ‘anchor punch’ was something no one had seen or that Ali made up after the fact (he may or may not have embellished its origins) is bunk. Ali also threw it against Cleveland Williams. If you watch Thomas Hearns, he also threw it from time to time.