Douglas vs Tyson 2 1990

I agree. I don't like diminishing a fighter, as what Douglas accomplished in toppling Mike Tyson at the peak of his career is nothing short of the greatest upset in boxing history and a must see fight for anyone. Although its Mikes most iconic loss it is one of the best fights on his resume in showing his capability. Even an 'unmotivated' or 'unprepared' all time great, is still an all time great in the ring and Tyson showed it when Douglas woke him up during the fight. People can give Tyson every excuse they want, but Douglas put on a masterclass and defeated an ATG. Tyson put up a valiant fight that would defined his career. If Douglas studied and prepared for any hypothetical match up like he did against Tyson... I don't think there was a heavyweight of that time who could've defeated Douglas that night.

 

I think it is 50% - 50% even chances because I am assuming Tyson wouldn't go so unprepared again.

Not taking anything away of Douglas, who fought a great fight and slayed the Dragon; but let's remeber that even that awful version of Tyson managed to rock and knockdown Douglas.

Thus, IMO a focused, disciplined, in shape Tyson has a good chance of taking down Douglas.

 

I agree there was hardly a HW who could've defeated Tokyo Douglas that night...
BUT
I also think there were plenty of HW who could've defeated Tokyo Tyson, maybe even quicker and easier than Douglas did.

 

Some of these comments are perplexing…

Tokyo Douglas got the luckiest, shadiest longest “10” (13) count in boxing history to survive round 8.
Against an unmotivated, manic, out of shape Tyson …who had the worst cornerman of all time (no enswell!!)

There is no way Douglas would be motivated enough mentally or physically to put in same effort for rematch (pathetic Holyfield performance). Douglas loses rematch in 1990 emphatically

Tyson with Rooney and Jacobs had direction, was in great shape, was motivated, and had great coaching. He doesn’t beat this version of Tyson.

 

Well, we saw Buster fight once after the Tyson win that year, and we saw Tyson fight twice that year after the loss.

Given how they both reacted to the first fight (Douglas went off the deep end and Tyson looked much sharper and in better shape than in Tokyo) I wouldn't be surprised if Tyson stopped Buster in a round or two in a rematch. That's why they fought so hard to get one.

 

A few thoughts:

1) Kevin Rooney isn’t coming back in this scenario. Tyson fired him and he lost to Douglas and he didn’t bring him back after that so there’s no reason to think he would whether he was fighting Douglas again or Henry Tillman and Alex Stewart.

If losing a fight was going to make him bring back Rooney, it would have happened. It didn’t. Not after Douglas. Not after Holyfield I. Not after Holyfield II. Etc.

2) The idea that Tyson was vastly out of shape vs. Douglas is a myth. He was 2 1/4 pounds heavier than he was vs. Spinks, 1 1/4 more than he was against Carl Williams in his previous fight. A guy would get heavier than that if he wasn’t doing some training.

The whole ‘he had sex in Tokyo’ thing is LOL. You think he was a virgin until he went to Japan? He hadn’t been disciplined outside the ring since he finally got away from the Catskills and living with Cus D’Amato where he was isolated. He was rich, he was young, he was a star and he lived how he wanted to live … and that wasn’t as a monk. And he had been brought up in the old ways and taught the hazards of not living a spartan life and he just didn’t care … he was knockout guys out without doing that so why deprive himself? I seriously doubt that changed in any way, before or after Douglas.

3) He fought twice in 1990 after the Douglas loss, both farces (Henry Tillman and Alex “You Thought Bruce Seldon Was Scared” Stewart). You can read into the matchmaking that there was a feeling/belief that Tyson lost some confidence. It was a matter of finding a couple of soft touches who wouldn’t be able to keep him off and would fall down when they got hit.

Yet still, Tillman nailed him in the first 30 seconds with a right hand as clean as any Douglas landed, right off the bat. Of course nothing happened because Henry couldn’t punch (and was a beefed-up cruiser). Steward hardly threw a punch. But if you look carefully at those 4 minutes or so of action across two fights, you don’t see a suddenly re-dedicated Tyson who is back to his early form. You see the same guy you’ll see against Ruddock or Tubbs … walk in and throw bombs and wait for the other guy to fall.

4) There’s a comment above about ‘the Tyson of Spinks or Berbick’ and that’s obviously a prime Tyson, but he’s still in his physical prime against Buster and there are fights in between those where he didn’t look so sharp even though he’s winning —- particularly against bigger guys (more build like Buster) Bonecrusher and Tucker. He didn’t manhandle those guys (and again, these are between the peak fights mentioned of Berbick and Spinks). I don’t think there’s a day when he manhandles Tokyo Douglas or has an easy time with that jab OR Buster’s right hand.

In summation, I don’t think there’s a 1990 version of Tyson that beats Tokyo Douglas. Some other versions of Buster, sure, but not that one. Tyson is what he is at this point. The clock isn’t turning back. Mike won about 8 seconds of the Tokyo fight (and Buster was slamming his first on the canvas at his own carelessness during seven of those) … otherwise it’s all Douglas from the opening bell.

Sure, Tyson always has a puncher’s chance but his best shot didn’t keep Buster down and I don’t think it would if they fought again … if he even landed it. I kinda like the suggestion from someone above that Tyson finds a way out by DQ once he sees it isn’t going his way like he did against Holyfield the second time.

 

Weighing a certain amount doesn’t prove that you’re in shape. Ask Ali in 80 or De La Hoya after Pacquiao.

 

Are you suggesting Tyson took thyroid medicine to lose weight for the Douglas fight? Or that he was coming down 1-2 weight divisions like Oscar?

Yeah if you weight drain you’re not the same in some cases, but Tyson wasn’t reducing from higher weights in previous fights. His weight is right in line with where it was before or after, within about a 2-pound swing. That indicates a similar level of fitness.

 

Mike.

Make no mistake, despite the money he made, that loss was absolutely humiliating for him.

He’d have trained and fought to his full capabilities.

He had no stamina in Tokyo.

He’d have gone in to have made a point.


Douglas would never have been in that same mindset.

He used the sad passing of his mother as fuel, as it happened just prior to the fight. After that, he was completely flat.

Evander would have had a harder time against the version of Douglas that Mike fought.


Even if he’d been in that same mindset, I’d still have picked Mike.

 

He wasn’t though.

His skills had diminished a little, but he wasn’t motivated and he had no stamina after 5 rounds, as he’d not trained.

He was in better physical shape for the majority of his fights after.

 

I don’t believe so.

I think the stars had aligned.

A very motivated fighter, vs an unmotivated fighter who wasn’t physically fit enough to go the distance.

 

I don’t know if Mike won fights whilst been in the same shape as the Douglas fight.

He seemed completely flat mentally, and he physically wasn’t fit enough.

 

This is a great well thought out post. But I disagree with him being in shape. Making weight and looking good aesthetically, have nothing to do with being in fighting shape.

I think the evidence is there in the fight.

Not to take anything away from James, but look at Mike’s stamina.

He was gassed very early.

 

In the interview, Tyson, who weighed 220 1/2 pounds--his normal fighting weight--for the Douglas bout, blamed the defeat on his loss of 25 pounds during the five weeks he was in Japan.

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“I was out of shape, more or less,” Tyson said. “I let myself get too heavy before the fight. I lost 25 pounds in Japan, in the last month before the fight. It was too much. I was training hard and just not eating. But really, I wasn’t worried going into the fight because I’d done it before and still won.

 

One of the rare times we agree.