Douglas vs Tyson 2 1990

I don't trust Douglas to beat anyone more than once just because of his mindset. He lacked consistency.

 

I read an article from a few years ago, where after the fight had been signed, Don King was worried about Mike’s weight, and Mike assured him he’d get down to it by the fight. He then went on to say that he managed to get down to the weight, but that he wasn’t in great shape.

He was getting bashed up by Page. His timing was out. Again, he gassed early in the fight.

Look at the Ruddock fights in 1991.

He could never have fought Ruddock like that, had he have been in the shape that he was in in Tokyo.

He’d have been gassed early.

 

Enough with long count!!!! Douglas was not out of it he hit the canvas with his glove and he followed the refs count!!! If the ref would have counted faster he would have gotten up. Tyson and Don King should have handled the loss differently and never went with this long count crap!!! Would have made Tyson look better. Should have just admitted he got his butt kicked that nite and went for a rematch. This long count is total BS!!!!! The long count did not save Douglas at all.

 

I’ll have to change my mind. I’m now more than confident Douglas wins a rematch after reading the above post.

 

Literally one person in this thread bought up “long count” as an excuse on Tyson’s behalf…. Calm down.

 

Sounds like after-the-fact excuses to me. He wasn’t overweight for Buster. He wasn’t huffing and puffing — he was getting beat up. Get hit repeatedly with that jab and, especially, those heavy right hands that Buster was dropping and, yeah, it takes something out of you.

Ruddock never put a sustained beating on Mike like that. One bomb, clinch. Another bomb, clinch. Two Tyson punches, clinch. Buster was jab, jab, right hand, jab … most of it landing and a steady stream of heavy shots.

Even in other fights that went longer, you don’t see Tyson with a high workrate in later rounds — Blood Green, Bonecrusher, Tucker, etc. He was a beast for about four rounds and then he usually kind of settled in. Still had power but he wasn’t ever on a 12-round search-and-destroy mission.

Yes, Tyson got knocked down by Greg Page in sparring. Is the suggestion that he never got hit in sparring before? I never heard that. The fact was Tyson was vulnerable to right hands and wasn’t as elusive as he was when he was sticking to his knitting and not power-happy. Eddie Futch must have thought so because in 91 seconds Michael Spinks threw like a dozen or more right leads — which indicates that was his game plan (didn’t work, but Eddie saw something). And as I pointed out, it took like 30 seconds for Henry Freaking Tillman to nail him with as flush a right as Buster ever did.

The difference is, Buster wasn’t scared and didn’t fall down and go boom like a lot of guys did. So he was able to exploit those weaknesses.

 

I could see a Prime Holmes duplicating what Douglas did. But I also think Douglas would have been tough for anyone that night and any version of Tyson.

 

Thats entirely valid but I would disagree from what I know granted I don't know the late 80's division so well, who are some guys you felt could beat Tokyo Tyson better than Douglas?

 

Mike had as bad preparations for Tucker as he had with Douglas. Mike took off for two weeks during camp. He was partying and telling people he was retired from boxing. Jimmy Jacobs pleaded with him to go through with the fight. On the same date. And without rescheduling he went through with that fight having missed a lot of training. He still won.

Tyson was crashing cars and postponing the Bruno fight.

During his prison interview Tyson said “I don’t know how those guys didn’t beat me” because “I wasn’t in shape”. But this is By his standards. I recon Tyson was still in as good shape as the guys he was fighting.

By his admission Tyson was more focused for Tubbs, Larry and Biggs. But at that point in his life I don’t think it made much difference. Tyson has the best of everything and was always in shape. He liked the gym even when his life went off the rails he would still train.

Tyson had been developed and primed to become the biggest and busiest name in boxing. Without the best of camps Tyson, at that stage, was still more of a professional athlete than the guys he was fighting.

He was a busy champion and still too active to decline that much physically between fights. Tyson never went into the ring heavy or noticeably less jacked than any other time.

 

This is what I am talking about. He’d done it before and still won.

So Douglas had to be better (on the night) than the guys Tyson beat when he’d “done it before and stills won”.

At that point in his life Tyson was that kind of athlete. He could still deliver on the night a performance that would beat anyone else even without the greatest camp.

 

There was a combination of things. He may have had a few fights with less than perfect condition, but his technique had been dropping off for at least two years also.

I think Douglas was his worst conditioning though. His foot speed was noticeably shitty from the opening bell.

 

I never said that he was overweight for Douglas.

I said that you could see in the fight that he had bad stamina issues, even early on.

The Ruddock fights were fought at a much faster pace.

Mike shipped a lot of shots against Douglas, but he was getting outboxed.

Against Ruddock, they both went at it hard in many rounds. They didn’t box, they fought each other. He took more hurtful shots against Ruddock than what he did against Douglas.

He was much fitter in those two fights with Ruddock.

He was spent in the second half of the fight in Tokyo.

 

That’s a false assumption. Tyson’s technique was worse by the time of the Douglas fight and he has an extensive history of downplaying his potential. It’s to the point where I think he’s coached to do that.

 

What I meant is there are several boxers I can think would have been able to defeat Tokyo Tyson, (not just 80s HW boxer who were contemporary to Tyson)

I give a lot of merit to Tyson for staying in the fight and not quitting in Tokyo, but that was a subpar version of him that was very vulnerable as Douglas proved.

My quick take:
60s – 70s: Ali, Sonny, Frazier, Foreman, all of them defeat Tokyo Tyson handily. IMO prime Ali and George stop him early.

80s: Larry Holmes beats Tokyo Tyson (the early 80s peak version of Holmes, not the washed up 38 yrs old who fought Tyson in RL). Young Holyfield has also a good chance. Maybe Weaver.

90s: of course Holyfield beats Tokyo Tyson leisurely. IMO Lewis spanks him silly. Bowe has also a good chance.

 

Tyson Was still ahead of everyone else though. He’s still ahead of the opposition without Rooney. He’s just beat Bruno and Williams and is a massive favourite to beat everyone.

put Williams and Bruno against any of the best Tyson had beat until that point. It’s not like Tyson is not taking care of business anymore.

we can quibble but no more than you ever could before.

Right at the beginning of his reign, periods of the Thomas fight Tyson seemed to run out of ideas. Against Smith he wasn’t at fault but he didn’t exactly shine. And this was with Rooney.

you have to credit Douglas for making Tyson look worse.

it’s not like Tyson put out a performance in Tokyo like Douglas did against Holyfield. There was no similarity there.