Liston vs Clay/Ali Fixed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by billyb71, Jun 11, 2022.


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  1. Holmes77

    Holmes77 Member Full Member

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    I saw somewhere where supposedly a cop broke a baton over Liston’s head and he didn’t flinch. Not saying it’s true but if that is true that punch didn’t hurt him
     
    Holmes77, Jun 12, 2022
    Holmes77, Jun 12, 2022
    #31
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  2. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Sonny quit, not sure if the fix was in though.
     
    Cecil, Jun 13, 2022
    Cecil, Jun 13, 2022
    #32
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  3. billyb71

    billyb71 Member Full Member

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    The Nation of Islam was in an upheaval when the second fight occurred.
    Malcolm X had just been assassinated by the NOI. Ali had sided with the NOI. Liston said later that he was afraid the MalcolmX people might be there ready to take Ali down and they could get Liston, too.

    Walcott's "inexperience" doesn't cut it with me. He had been a pro fighter for 30 years. He knew exactly what a fighter had to do when he knocked someone down- go to a neutral corner. No count until he does. Walcott knew that.

    I think Liston decided he wanted out of that ring. He went down at the earliest opportunity and wanted to stay down. Ali screwed it up by dancing around him and not going to a neutral corner. Liston knew he was acting like an idiot with his beached whale act, and finally got up. Walcott had been told to see to it Liston lost, so he stopped the fight.
     
    billyb71, Jun 13, 2022
    billyb71, Jun 13, 2022
    #33
  4. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Walcott was incompetent, didn't know where the timekeeper was sitting,but I don't think he was corrupt he just lost control of the situation. The timekeeper counted Liston out twice, what was Walcott supposed to do start the fight over?
     
    Liston73, Jun 13, 2022
    Liston73, Jun 13, 2022
    #34
  5. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The FBI thought that gambler Ash Resnick had fixed the first fight in Miami in Feb.1964. The one in Maine in May 1965 was pathetic. Liston took a dive! As writer Robert Lipsyte said about Liston: "As Heavyweight Champion Of The World...your supposed to die trying! Sonny didn't do that...he quit...he just sat there!"
     
    RockyJim, Jun 13, 2022
    RockyJim, Jun 13, 2022
    #35
  6. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And it would take a pretty dumb fighter who's aware of a fix to start celebrating his victory the second his opponent hits the deck.

    He might as well hold his arms aloft in triumph before the opening bell.
     
    DavidC77, Jun 13, 2022
    DavidC77, Jun 13, 2022
    #36
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  7. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I still can not believe that Walcott just walked away from the two boxers, leaving them to carry on fighting while he spoke to the timekeeper.

    He should have sent Ali and Liston to opposite neutral corners - it's common sense.

    You're right. His incompetence was staggering by anyone's standards, let alone an ex-fighter with his vast experience.
     
    DavidC77, Jun 13, 2022
    DavidC77, Jun 13, 2022
    #37
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  8. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agreed, but he did not speak to the timekeeper, Nat Fleischer told him to stop the fight...
     
    TBooze, Jun 14, 2022
    TBooze, Jun 14, 2022
    #38
  9. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    The time keeper who had no mike, spoke to him.What Fleischer did was make Walcott aware that the timekeeper had counted Liston out.
     
    Liston73, Jun 14, 2022
    Liston73, Jun 14, 2022
    #39
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  10. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Which is even worse!!

    1) Speaking to sportswriters during a bout rather than the officials

    2) Taking a sportswriter's word that the fight was over rather than an official...

    You couldn't make it up.
     
    DavidC77, Jun 14, 2022
    DavidC77, Jun 14, 2022
    #40
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  11. billyb71

    billyb71 Member Full Member

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    The referee's count is the only one that matters. The fight was stolen from Liston. He may have wound up losing anyway, but he didn't.
     
    billyb71, Jun 14, 2022
    billyb71, Jun 14, 2022
    #41
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  12. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    I also heard that the correction guards used to hit Sonny Liston on the head, this came from an interview with Joe Frazier describing how tough Liston was.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Jun 14, 2022
    Richard M Murrieta, Jun 14, 2022
    #42
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  13. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Stop The Steal, Ha, Ha.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Jun 14, 2022
    Richard M Murrieta, Jun 14, 2022
    #43
  14. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    I'm thinking that ko punch from Marciano, rattled him more than we thought!
     
    Fergy, Jun 14, 2022
    Fergy, Jun 14, 2022
    #44
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  15. billyb71

    billyb71 Member Full Member

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    Walcott's actions have never been explained. He had 30 years and 70 fights experience with the neutral corner rule. There is no excuse for the way he handled Liston's knockdown. Liston was not counted out. Ali would not go to a neutral corner long enough for Walcott to start a count. It's irrelevant what the Timekeeper thought or did. The actual count belongs to the referee.
    Ali should have been disqualified and the bout awarded to Liston.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
    billyb71, Jun 15, 2022
    billyb71, Jun 15, 2022
    #45
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