Would Jimmy Young have the success against Frazier that he had against the other greats he fought?

No worse than clinching (see Frazier-Ali 2).

 

Young was tailor made for Frazier

 

I have a very hard time seeing Young win against a prime Frazier. Terrible style matchup for him.

 

Well, clinching is actually allowed - but in measure.

So yeah, def. no argument that Ali’s clinching vs Frazier II was OTT (preaching to the choir actually since I’ve noted same before) and a pre med strategy to stifle Joe as opposed to an as and when required, moderately applied tactic - which is acceptable.

And in speaking of theses things - we should actually applaud Frazier in positive contrast - as clean and honest a fighter as you will ever see. Frazier just came to fight - no more, no less.

 

Not if you do it to stifle the attacker. Ali was grabbing him behind the head, which is definitely not allowed.

I remember watching Hearns put his hand behind the head of Benitez for a split second. The referee immediately docked a point.

 

Well, as per my last post, you know I agree that Ali’s clinching was OTT - and that I also already stated that it was specifically employed to stifle Joe.

You now ref. Ali grabbing behind the head - and very true, Ali did that and it is not allowed - and he did same in a number of other fights.

The problem with clinching is that, since it is allowed in “some measure”, the regulation of same is often arbitrary and lacking overall uniformity across multiple matches and even within the same match on occasions.

There’s at least one scenario in which fighters are often applauded for unbridled clinching to stifle an attack - the example being when they are badly hurt, looking to survive - Hearns was credited for knowing to do same in the rematch vs SRL. - unlike the first match when Tommy was all at sea once he was hurt.

As to determining hard and fast answers to the questions: when is clinching okay and how much clinching is acceptable - it can almost be like asking “How long is a piece of string?”

Not at all to dilute Ali’s clinching vs Frazier - a different scenario again - but with arbitrary judgement still in play.

IMO it was well and truly OTT, a clear pre med strategy to unfairly stifle Joe’s attack and his (Ali) getting away with it without even a single point deducted was extremely poor refereeing - including Ali’s holding behind the head (as you ref.) to facilitate the holding and what not - but unfortunately, the regulation was completely under the ref’s arbitrary authority, subjective interpretations and subsequent actions/inactions.

 

No, heck no. Young would be in big trouble against Frazier. Unless it was the shot version of Frazier.

 

I think that, even then Young would have to shoot Frazier at least once more if he was going to win.

 

God. Worst stylistic match up ever for Young. A moderate punching, awkward cutie vs a relentless, Uber aggressive, skilled animal like Frazier.

Joe would wreck him.

 

Didn't Young lose to Ali? Or was it a robbery? I didn't see the fight.

 

Not enough power to keep Joe off him and Frazier closes the gap too fast.

 

I see what you did there, grey. Very nice.

 

Well, in all fairness we need to remember the Foreman who fought Young was a sub par version.

After RITJ Foreman was down and out in his game. He was a spent force, emotionally drained, ready to retire and embark into his spiritual journey searching for the Holy Grill ...

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I remember the peak George Foreman who was champion from Jan 22 1973 until Oct 30 1974. Foreman in those days had hair, walked around scowling much the same way his idol Sonny Liston used to walk around. Foreman used to walk around with his very vicious Canines whom he had on a leash. George in those days was a little smug and arrogant. He would have not been caught dead with a shaved head and smiling while selling grills on television commercials.