Sugar Ray - GOAT? For ALL Time?

it will never been seen or done again, such proliferation at the TOP and for 3 Decades, Times Dozens of TOP Opposition and almost always winning, and by an easy margin in many a case.

the Absolute Best of ALLTIME.

however, there are many fighters biting at his heals who are not too far off, and thousands yet again biting at theirs.

GREAT, Great, great... ALL Top & Elite fighters.

 

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No for both, because Greb exists.

 

I think he's as good a contender as anyone.

I don't think it would be possible for someone to match him or Greb etc. even if they had the ability now, just because of the current politics, and safety.

 

Nope. Nobody tops SRR

 

SRR was a far better boxer.
Until footage of Greb shows up (which I doubt although I pray it does), he cannot be considered superior to SRR

 

So I can't assume Greb was better, but you can assume he's worse?

 

Yes, the era in which Greb fought was worse, thus my assumption is more valid than yours.

 

Are you aware that you'd have to prove the superiority of one era over the other at first? You'd also have to define the "goodness" of era and create ways to objectively quantify it.

Otherwise it's just your wishful thinking

 

Ray Robinson was fortunate to come along when
fights were more than likely to be put on film.
Fight fans/historians can actually see his brilliance and athleticism
applied in action for the most part. An advantage he holds
over most of the ATG'S prior to him.
Also, the opposition he faced were some of the best of the best.
If one man can be named the "Greatest boxer in history",
The evidence available clearly supports Ray Robinson more
than any fighter before him and after him.
Skills, Athleticism, determination, killer instinct,
ability to adopt under pressure, longevity,
opposition faced, ability to take a great punch,
speed of hand and foot, power.
At the least top 5 from most boxers, trainers, and sports writers,
in history.
Also a very good film study source.
Robinson gets high to extremely high marks in
each category.
It all sums up to the Greatest of All Times for the Original
Sugar Ray.

 

Rummy that was excellent ty, and almost thou persuadest me to be a Robinsonite!

I'm a Greb guy (Robinson is a razor-close 2nd in my book). The fact that so many have Greb @ #1 despite Robinson on film looking like gold, and Greb dross, says volumes about how strong his record is imo. To even be considered the greatest, with zero video available, is mind-blowing!

When all is said and done, I must bow to the record when considering these things. Whether I've witnessed the accomplishments or not, has no bearing on the conclusion.

 

Seconded.

Even if there were passable footage of Langford and Greb, they still wouldn't fit that smooth, idealistic mould that Robinson personified. Aesthetics go a long way in sport and Ray looked the part in every way, from the fleet feet down to that million-dollar smile. Unless boxing were to change so much that our sense of when the sport was at its best changes...but, it's not happening.

Many younger fans are aware that boxing isn't what it used to be. That the base ingredients which make an era great - the top boxers fighting often - are immutable. While in a sport like tennis we can see how superior rackets have greatly improved the game, boxing (with shorter fights to name one change) has actually become...shall we say, diluted, and further, if we insist on the eye test - as a modern defendant may to claim Mayweather check-hooking Hatton was the pinnacle of skill - it still fails to captivate like Robinson-Fullmer.

You could argue a handful are deserving to seen as greater but, for reasons stated, it's never going to catch fire.

If anything, the shadow cast by his legacy is set to grow.

 

Armstrong & Duran for me

They were at height/reach disadvantages

 

Footage shows that. Old timers pre 1930-1940 sucked.