Was Liston Totally Finished, After Ali 2.?

Maybe you can get him to explain to me how the mob makes money on fighters they keep on the shelf by fighting for low purses in backwaters off tv... You must be a brilliant business man.

 

Not explaining nothing to you. Have a good day

 

I didnt think so.

 

He would have squashed Ellis. Quarry would have been interesting.

 

lol

 

Good point. If Liston was so good before Ali and so good after Ali then doesent that help the argument that Liston threw the first fight by quiting in the corner then taking a dive in the second fight pretending to get knocked out? Interesting

 

Still a top fighter. But after Ali, he was at best a distant second and just a long slow fade from then on.

 

I think the Clay fights were probably fixed.

 

Not so sure about that. Watching Ellis trounce Martin compared to how sluggish Liston looked against the same fighter makes me think Ellis would have been too mobile and fast for the ponderous Liston of the late 1960’s.

Quarry was tough but had a tendency to cut which makes me think Liston with that great jab (which was really the only great thing he had left by that stage) could exploit that. Still Quarry was tough and Liston would in no way have an intimidation factor over the brave Jerry. A very good and interesting match up!

 

I agree with your overall point, but to be fair to Liston, he faced quite a few injuries in the ring before Ali loss and he didn't back up.

 

Amen, Klomp, you nailed it.

 

Ali ruined him. There would no second act ala George Foreman.

 

Liston quit in the rematch against Ali. Yes when he finally got up he was fighting but he had no choice as Ali started to attack him. Why he quit no one knows but likely a combination of elements. Keep in mind he was highly inactive going into the first Ali fight, overconfident and under prepared. He was likely a few years older than reported and a heavy drinker He was still a dangerous man post Ali but it always comes down to styles and Ali was too good for that middle aged man. Post Ali who knows. Likely looking for the easiest road back to a big payday. I’ve read he very much wanted Frazier thinking Joe was made for him. He may have passed on some opportunities but what late age fighter didn’t when trying to find the easiest payday path? I certainly don’t think he was a coward. He showed plenty of guts in his career. He simply knew better than anyone that he was old and past it. Look at the terrible opposition post title Baer fought trying to get a Louis rematch. Look at the entire second career of Foreman and his cherry picked opposition. It’s common.