What boxers did Rocky Marciano consciously and deliberately duck, if any?

Read Marcianos new book. While I think many of those 13 men were at end of there careers, Marciano fought with a style that took a lot out of people

no doubt savold was old and a joke at that point, my biggest criticism of marcianos career is fighting that old tomato can instead of a peak Clarence Henry who was coming off a marvelous knockout win at Madison square garden over Bob baker.

Now that said the statement has some merit

26 year old Roland Lastarza called Marciano “punchy”. Marciano got more angry for this fight than any his entire career. He told his best friend Nicky Sylvester he would torture and punish Lastarza. He belted Lastarza’s arms until blood vessels were broken and bones ruptured. Afterward, Marciano apologized to Roland for being “sadistic” he genuinely felt bad. Lastarza suffered physical damage He never fully recovered from and his career as a world class fighter was over

6’4 20 year old Carmine Vingo was a big hitter who hurt Marciano worse than anyone in his career. He ended up paralyzed in one side of his body, nearly died in a coma after Marciano knocked him out.

Walcott and Charles put on gritty great performances in the first bouts. They couldn’t have done better. They checked out for the rematches, took the pay day and went home.


Joe Rein watched a Marciano vs Valdes sparring session where he said Valdes packed it in after a few rounds and appeared to quit mentally. Valdes left the gym early.

another time hurricane jackson who they say had unparalleled stamina, sparred with Marciano and Marciano gassed out hurricane jackson to the point he leaned over the ropes and puked and he was done for the day.

 

I did a lot of research on Marciano-Patterson

Here are facts

1. Marciano thought cockell was the biggest joke of a title challenger and lost his edge training for that fight

2. Marciano felt he was in physical decline in 1955 and wanted to retire after cockell

3. Marciano was persuaded to come back vs Moore by a friend who told him his legacy would have a huge hole if he retired without fighting archie

4. Marciano got himself into peak condition for one more fight vs Moore, who Marcianos camp considered the most dangerous contender of the era

5. Patterson wasn’t even on Marcianos radar when he retired. Marciano respected Patterson as a good young fighter but viewed him as a “ former middleweight “ and “teenager” who wasn’t anywhere near ready to tackle heavyweights

6. Patterson destroying Moore came a huge surprise to many including Marciano.

7. By the time Marciano realized Patterson was for real in heavyweight division, it was 1957. Marciano had ballooned up to 220lb and was 34 years old and retired. Marciano loved his undefeated record and did not want to risk it by making an ill fated comeback where he wasn’t in peak condition

8. Marciano did not respect johannson and thought he was smug and overrated. Marciano got himself into good shape in 1961 trimmed down to under 200 and felt he could still beat johannson at his advanced age. Ultimately, Marciano was talked out of it by his friends and family

 

Elbow?? You can clearly see on the film and hear in the radio broadcast that it was a perfect uppercut that caught Marciano right on the point of the nose. Right after it lands Marciano quickly wipes his nose and the announcer says "and Charles brings up a left uppercut that brings a spurt of blood from the champion..."

 

Yeah, all that's mostly true. But I think Weill was playing it safe by taking on Charles rather than someone else. I'm not sure Ezzard was capable of getting in shape after the first fight because of the beating he had taken. I think he was damaged goods at that point in his career, and I think Weill knew Ezzard had shot his bolt in the that fight. Even so, Charles almost came out on top in the rematch when he ripped up Rocky's nose. You never know in the fight game. I agree Weill was calling all the shots with Rocky with some input from Jim Norris, and that Weill only wanted two fights per year for Rocky. And he was right to pace Rocky in his title defenses because Rocky's style required adequate recovery time. I also believe Marciano could have defeated any of his challengers up until the time of his retirement. But Istill think some people fail to take into account that Rocky's reign was not as impressive as the others I have mentioned, and I think it's worth pointing out.

 

Yeah I heard the broadcast. You mind pinpointing the exact sequence in film where you think Charles lands that uppercut? I’d be happy to admit you’re right . I haven’t been able to find a “punch”

ring doctor alexander schiff told police gazette in December 1954 he came very close to stopping it and he would not have let Marciano go on another round

 

no doubt. I think he could have snuck in a few more title defenses and having a baker or Valdes on his resume would have looked really good in hindsight beating a talented young big man.

Weill was very protective and sportswriters of the day really made fun of Weill for “padding marcianos record” in providence Vs stiffs.

However Weill did make the biggest fights of the era happen. Once he believed in Marciano, he put him in the ring vs anyone. It was a risk to throw him in Vs Layne but he did so. Goldman thought Layne was perfect stylistic matchup for Marciano and he proved himself right.

Weill just didn’t like the idea of taking too many risks. Weill was very smart. Marciano was underdog vs Layne and Louis knocked out both of them to earn title shot. Why risk promised title shot vs young banger Clarence Henry when you can beat up shopworn 36 year old Lee savold to buy some time ? He was a good manager and scumbag human

 

“In 1964 Marciano stopped into Miami gym to watch liston train. Marciano and liston spoke.

Liston goes “what do you think you would have done with me rock? I know what I would have done with you, You wouldn’t have hit me at all. If I hit you, I would have knocked you out”.

The affable Marciano usually walked away from confrontations outside the ring. Now in the face of Liston’s belligerent needling, Rocky got mad.

Lou Duva said “They started to get into it. They were yelling at each other. Rocky wanted to fight him right there and then in the gym. All the mob guys are there. They broke the two of them up and took liston away.”
Still a month later Marciano picked liston to defeat Ali”

- Mike Stanton’s book

 

Just as an aside, I don't believe Carmine Vingo was anything like 6'4". At only 189 lbs he'd have had to be much leaner than he appears in pictures from the time. The only references to his height I've seen in the contemporary press give it as 6 feet.

 

Lastarza had bone chips in his elbows when he went into the Marciano fight,he postponed their removal until after the fight.Lastarza said, with his style Marciano could end up punchy,and you're right Rocky took offence at that.In the Ring interview from which I got my information Roland said that Al Weill put him up to make that remark. Marciano didn't get on top of Lastarza until the second half of the fight,he was sloppy and dirty early.
Lastarza won 4 of the 1st 6 rds.

Goldman told Rocky to target the body to bring Lastarza's arms down and that worked.Marciano never deliberately targeted the arms he would rather have been hitting the head and body but he just wasn't usually that accurate a puncher.
VIngo ,if he was 6 feet 4 ,he was a stringbean at189lbs, his record was16-1-0 with 7 stoppage wins.Big puncher? These are the records of those he stopped.
6-0-0
2-20-0 lost 11 by stoppage
6-2-0
2-6-4 lost 4 by ko
8 -9-1 won 3 of last 9, had lost 5 by stoppage
2-6-0 lost last 6 ,5 by ko
0-0-0

In his last 7 fights Vingo had stopped just 1 man, a debutee.
Nice to hear about the sparring stories.

 

I dunno that is a very large overstatement of height.
VIngo looks pretty slim to me, but I have never seen him listed as anything but 6'4", & you can see him described as "Big Carmine Vingo, which would only be for his height & length.

DO you have any links where he was listed only as 6'?

 

Here's a couple. I know boxrec gives it as 6'4", but I've no idea what their source for that is.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/104330429/carmine-vingo-height/
https://ibb.co/6ZkXgSc

 

In a Boxing Illustrated interview Marciano said he cancelled a comeback against Ingo because he found he was not prepared to make the training sacrifices necessary to get into the shape he would want to be in. At the press conference for his retirement Marciano said he felt he ,"still had a couple of fights in me".

 

You probably cant find it because in the film of the fight the rounds are out of order and labeled incorrectly and the rounds are edited so they arent complete. This is very common in this era. I have the rounds re-edited in the correct order but they are still incomplete so in the 6th round it happens 1min 18secs into the round but it was probably later in the round due to there being an edit in the film shortly before.

 

That's very interesting ,because I always believed it was a stray elbow that split the nose.

 

vingo made Marciano “black out” from a left hook. Direct quote . Hardest he’s ever been hit according to Marciano only Vingo’s left hook and moores right hand made him black out for a second. Charlie Goldman described vingo as a big hitter when preparing Marciano for him

who said string beans can’t hit? Ever heard of Bob foster or Tommy Hearns?