Sonny Liston vs. Buster Mathis - for the Vacant Heavyweight Title March 1968

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Dubblechin, Jun 24, 2022.


  1. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Here is a mythical matchup I don't think we've done before.

    The WBA launches its tournament to crown a successfor to Ali in the summer of 1967. Joe Frazier, the WBA's #2 contender, ACCEPTS and is included in the tournament.

    Buster Mathis isn't invited by the WBA. Neither is the last World Heavyweight Champion before Ali, Sonny Liston.

    Five U.S. states (New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Massachusetss and Maine) and the British Boxing Board of Control agree to recognize the winner as the World Champ.

    Mathis is 23-0. Liston is 38-3.

    Liston hasn't fought in 11 months, when he stopped fringe WBA contender Elmer Rush. He weighs 223lbs.

    Mathis last fought three months earlier, stopping Swede Gerry de Bruyn. Buster weighs 243lbs.

    The fight is held at Madison Square Garden in March 1968, same night as Frazier-Mathis was held.

    Who wins and how?
     
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  2. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    I really like this post, Buster Mathis Sr for a rather large guy was pretty quick, but his biggest weakness is pressure from his opposition, remember what Joe Frazier did to him in their actual title bout on March 4 1968, Mathis kept crying out to the referee, Make Him Step Back. Sonny Liston was destroyed egotistically by Muhammad Ali in both fights, Liston resorted to mediocre opposition following those fights for a quick payday. Liston at this point is way past his fighting peak, he indulged in Alcohol, the funny white stuff and instead of the gym, it was other wild women for the Bear, he cheated on Geraldine. Buster moves well against Sonny, throwing out that left jab, throwing snappy counters as Liston begins to fade as exhaustion creeps in. The ending resembles the ill fated bout against Leotis Martin in Dec 1969, the fight ends in round 9, with Liston sprawled out on his stomach being counted out. Mathis has ring activity on his side in this one.
     
  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    In ‘68? I’d lean towards Mathis
     
  4. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So far, people seem to think Mathis beats Liston for the vacant belt.

    Who does Buster defend against first?

    Would Buster be seen as better than Frazier, who would likely have won the WBA tournament, given that the last time they fought in 64, Buster won?
     
  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Does Cus protect Buster as champ like he did with Patterson?

    Does Buster hold the title until Ali returns? (Cus and Ali spent some time together during Ali's exile, filming the movie AKA Cassius Clay. So Ali may prefer to work with them.)
     
  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Is Joe Frazier viewed as an opportunist who didn't deserve his medal/heavyweight title?

    Mathis beat Frazier to qualify for the Olympic team but got injured, opening the door for Frazier.

    Ali was stripped by the WBA, opening the door for Frazier to beat lesser men for a belt, like the WBA did for Terrell when they stripped Ali in 64.

    What if Ali and Mathis ignored Frazier?

    Ali beat Liston for the title and so did Mathis.

    Is Frazier relegated to the same status as Ernie Terrell, the previous WBA champ?
     
  7. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What happens if Liston wins?
     
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  8. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If Liston gets himself in condition he beats Mathis, probably badly.
     
  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    LOL that harpooned whale Mathis gets bounced off the canvas like a ball.

    Liston early knockout
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    WHEN he wins
     
  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Not sure how much Liston had left by that point. Sure he was still dangerous but he wasn’t the same guy who beat Floyd Patterson years earlier nor even close. At the same time Mathis wasn’t all that good of a fighter. Hard call
     
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  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    still good enough to knock 12 out of 14 people out in his comeback including two top 10 ranked contenders.

    If you want to compare common opponents, Amos Lincoln took buster Mathis to a split decision in 1968. Two months later, liston destroyed Lincoln in 2 rounds

    Liston looked good on film in late 60s. Older and slower but very powerful. He still packed a punch and had a great left jab. Dangerous fight for anyone including Frazier and yank Durham knew it
     
  13. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I’ll have to change my opinion on this match up after reading this.

    Liston most likely takes it
     
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Steve Compton provided good evidence liston was not out looking to fight the major young contenders in the division in the late 60s but I don’t include buster mathis in that group
     
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  15. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Cus did not protect Buster very well against Smoking Joe Frazier on March 4 1968. Lol.