Dempsey's crazy 1st round KO record

I love talking the old timers…..the lack of 100% certainty on some facts is actually what makes for great discussions and reasoned speculations.

These are either or or’s depending on the source:-

The bell sounded to end the first round, due to issues with the bell in the first place and the roar of the spectators it wasn’t heard so Pecord completed his count and went over and raised Dempsey’s hand.

Alternate observations - bell issues already known (bell closest to Willard’s corner) , Pecord tracked himself with the time keeper and duly stopped the count at 7, some say 6. Pecord didn’t raise Dempsey’s hand.

Hand raised or not, why would Dempsey, believing he’s the new Champ, leave the ring so quickly - 1) to ensure collection of 100 K on 10 K, 10-1 bet? - some doubts as to whether that bet was actually made or at least the actual amount laid down or 2) perhaps to preempt declaration of a KO or stoppage if it hadn’t already been adjudged to be so by Pecord?

If Willard elected not to come out for round 2, under mod. rules/perspectives, that would be viewed as a TKO round 2, not round 1 so Jack loses the bet if there was one.

As to whether Dempsey took “something” for an earlier rounds, abbreviated “boost” - fighters of Dempsey’s ilk often have a natural drop in their intensity after say the first 4 rounds.

It’s relative though - it might mean a certain reduction in performance - from say Sublime to “just” excellent or very good.

It could also mean a trap door drop in quality - like say Earnie Shavers after trying to take his opponent’s head off in the earlier rounds without success.

Jack Johnson observed Dempsey as being a Sabre Toothed Tiger in the first 4 rounds.

After that, Johnson felt Dempsey was just a good or ordinary fighter* - *can’t remember Johnson’s exact, verbatim description of Dempsey after the first 4 rounds - but I recall it being in Jack Johnson and His Times by Denzel Batchelor.

A couple of notable feathers in Dempsey’s stamina cap - later round KO of Bill Brennan and 15 rounds vs Tommy Gibbons.

 

the point is the bigger men he beat were laughably bad

 

Seldon took dive & fake hurt to referee for stoppage .... how obvious it was! bad act. very very bad acting. No academy award for Bruce Seldon. maybe comedy award!
embarrassment for boxing

 

Assuming you're not joking, is strychnine the sort of thing that gives a short-term boost like that? I thought it was more of a long distance running thing? I assumed cocaine would be the better option available at that time for manically jumping on somebody.

 

Dempsey 15 round fighter & proof it with Tommy Gibbon

 

4 round fighter is Butterbean Eric Ecsh

 

It’s also good for rodents.

 

How can you know that? You have seen only two big men on the tape against Dempsey - Willard and Firpo. You''ve never seen Morris or Fulton on the tape. Fulton was top contender at that time.

 

I've just reviewed this first round issue as described in Adam Pollacks Jack Dempsey Part 1.
Indeed, very heard the bell due to it being weak or the crowd noise. The ref, Pecord, counted Willard out but the timekeeper told him the round had ended, thus saving Willard. Dempsey thought the fight was over, moved to shake Willard's hand but the ref pushed him back. The ref DID NOT raise Dempseys hand, so he knew the fight wasn't over. Dempsey control think he'd won, as did his seconds who rushed into the ring along with Jack Kearns his promoter. Dempsey leaves the ring, thinking he'd won....after all he knocked Willard down 7 times and Willard was pulverized and dazed sitting on the canvas.

Meanwhile Willard's corner picked him up and gave him smelling salts. He rose on unstable legs and sat on his stool. The ref tells Kearns that the fight wasn't over so he frantically waves Dempsey back into the ring.

There is debate as to how much time passed between the 1st and 2nd rounds. What is clear is that Dempsey had at the most 10 seconds of rest, whereas Willard was successfully revived.

 

For his weight Prince Naseem was very dangerous in round 1.

 

dempsey (who I rate number 3 on my under 200lb head to head list) would stand no chance vs a Tyson Fury, Lennox Lewis, or Klitschko

These other men? Well then we start speculating. No chance he enters the ring at 185lb Vs any of the men above he would get killed. How much weight does he put on with modern science/benefits? Does he even decide he wants to compete at heavyweight vs a really talented cruiserweight division? Jack was a special talent and I would favor him above the journeyman you listed above although whyte would be dangerous with his size and punching ability

37 year old 4 year layoff Willard, Hippo, Fulton, Morris…these men would get killed by a Dillian Whyte fast crisp powerful left hook. None of those men would get anywhere near a title shot for the linear belt. Maybe one of them breaks into a organizational WBO top 10 rating


Firpo was a small step above a bar room brawler

Jess was a hack amatuer and looked like an old cowhand out there

Fulton may have been the best at using his length and even still he was skinny awkward and had porous defense with his hands low and no upper body movement. Harry Wills utterly embarrassed Fulton. Wills was the best big man of the era and a fight with Dempsey would have told us a lot

Morris lost to all these men so I highly doubt he could fight

 

Naz always said he liked the second round much more.

 

Smith's stoppage of Witherspoon is mostly questioned on the grounds of it being a dive or that Tim was unprepared and poor shape. Never heard anyone say that Smith intimidated Witherspoon.

So you strike every result there are some opinions about? I don't.

Fair point about comparing the 3 knockdown rule to Dempsey's lack of neutral corner.

He was a ranked contender coming off a win against a huge puncher (Smith). Of course he had business being in there.

Berbick, Thomas and Williams were about the same size as Tucker. I think Botha might have been the smaller man in the ring on the night.

Add Bruno and Golota to big men he stopped. Then there were of course a fair number of lesser pedigree.

Holmes would only be KO'd by one man in his entire career and that was Tyson. It's silly to try and pretend that it doesn't mean anything. Thomas was also extremely durable, no matter how much bigger he was or wasn't. Was probably a bit on the slide, though.