Dempsey's crazy 1st round KO record

dempsey probably could flatten them at 185lb but under modern rules you can’t weigh in to compete at heavyweight under 193lb

Willard fought Johnson 4 years prior to fighting Dempsey. Fought once more, Then didn’t fight again for 3 years and showed up 20lb pudgier at age 37 vs Dempsey

Even if you take the Johnson win into consideration, it should be noted the 37 year old Johnson who had a tire around his midsection won 19 of the first 20 rounds easy. Willard only one because a racist promoter gave him every advantage possible because he wanted Johnson out at champion. He scheduled the fight for 45 rounds in a very humid climate. Willard showed zero boxing ability in the fight except he outlasted a tired fat unmotivated old man. Under todays 12 round modern fight rules, Willard struggles to win rounds vs anyone.

It also should be noted farmhand Jess had a history of losing fights to much smaller opponents. 180lb gunboat Smith easily beat him.

 

I wasn't saying Smith intimidated him. Maybe I worded that wrong. The comparison was to state that even though both Tyson and Smith won fair and square, their opponents weren't in the right frame of mind (for different reasons).

I'm not, I'm just saying there are in fact several arguments against the Williams and Seldon stoppages and those are easily 2 of Tyson's best 1st round stoppages so it's worth bringing up when comparing how dangerous he is to Dempsey. You have one guy who was arguably stopped way too soon, and another who possibly took matters into his own hands and said F@#* it not wanting to get hit. Neither are Tyson's fault, but it's relevant.

Many of Dempsey's KOs are clean, often 1 punch knockouts where the opponent stays down for the full 10 count. Rarely is it due to towels being thrown in, bad cuts, the guy stumbling around and the fight being waved off, etc. True knockout power. That's what makes this topic fascinating.

Only on paper. In reality they didn't belong in the same zip code. This of course isn't Tyson's fault. Maybe I'm nitpicking too much with this one. Dempsey himself did have some overmatched opponents.

For some reason I thought Tucker weighed 230 him and Tyson were basically the same weight. Fair points about Tucker being similar in weight to those names.

Botha was both heavier and taller than Tyson. I gave him that one.

I already gave him credit for Bruno.

Golota was a NC.

I didn't say the Holmes KO didn't mean anything. I'm simply pointing out Holmes wasn't remotely in his best condition. If people give Dempsey hell for Willard's inactivity that's no worse than Holmes coming off a layoff and 2 losses.

 

Dempsey weighed over 190 numerous times so that wouldn't be a problem. He often weighed in the 180 range when times were rough and he wasn't getting enough food. He also tended to sweat the weight off with intense training that many modern guys don't do today. It would be easy for him to meet the minimum requirements to fight in today's era. He was 6'1 and very lean and strong at 190 with good power and speed. It would be a piece of cake for him to retain all that at around 205 or so with modern training methods and diets.

I'm aware Willard fought Johnson 4 years before Dempsey. My point was that Willard obviously wasn't just some oafish bum with zero skill if he managed to beat Johnson. Yes he relied on his side and strength, but he had decent boxing ability. Otherwise even an old Johnson would have schooled him. I'm fully aware that they gave Willard unfair advantages but you can't bring that up and then ignore how Willard's stamina was good enough to last over 20 rounds and hung in there with a highly skilled opponent.

 

I don’t doubt Dempsey could carry 205lb well but at 6’1 205lb why compete for a heavyweight title against a 6’9 250lb elite mover like Tyson fury who is a master at distance and keeping opponents at long range. Fury would pepper Dempsey with jabs then slam home fast long uppercuts from all angles. It would be unfair

Dempsey would be better off challenging the highly talented cruiserweight division and going after linear champion Usyk along with Briesidis

 

I agree it would be better for Dempsey to fight at cruiser. This thread isn't me advocating for him going to HW. I'm simply discussing how dangerous he is in the 1st round h2h. So far Tyson is the only name brought up people can say are just as dangerous as Dempsey in round 1.

 

Not being in the right state of mind because of issues not related to the opponent is not the same as not being in the right state of mind because of issues 100% related to the opponent. Not the same at all.

If intimidation played a factor at all, though. Shouldn't for a seasoned pro like Spinks, You have anything more than your guess for that one?

How many of those against top opponents, though. So far only Fulton has come up.

Tyson had lots of clean first round KO's against unranked opp.

Again - Frazier had beaten ranked contender and huge puncher Smith right before Tyson. There is nothing paper about that. Frazier was legitimately ranked when Tyson destroyed him.

Due to Tyson testing positive for marijuana, yes. He caved his ****ing face in.

Holmes was a much, much better fighter, though, and would go on to operate on top level for another 7 years.

 

Sonny Liston

 

Fair enough. You've made some good points.

Tyson definitely has a say in this conversation. He was extremely dangerous early.

 

How does a very humid climate help Willard? And what about Johnson running around for years claiming he threw the fight when a blind man could see he lost by ko? Johnson had fought long stretches before many times, the fact that he ran out of steam is just another excuse. Johnson didnt have the best chin stopped several times in his career by much lighter men.

 

Dempsey dangerous in every round.
yes fast starter & exciting from bell first sound. Tyson similar. but first round KO with good opposition rare even to this great fighters. the most of them would be with bum fighter.

which heavyweight has been best opposition 1st round KO?
Louis? Liston? Dempsey? Tyson? somebody other?

 

Brown Bomber Joe Louis win with Max Schmeling & Buddy Baer & Tami Maurello is impressive 1st round KO. he also has other . but this are the ones I have memory as most impressive. very great.

 

Excellent details. I've got Adam's book also. IIRC, it did mention one report (or perhaps Dempsey and/or his team) claiming that Pecord raised Jack's hand. I'm not saying that's correct, just that it was claimed.

Note as Dempsey heads toward Willard, there is a film jump and then you see Pecord give Dempsey a slight push away.

At any rate, the way Willard was slumped in the corner, Dempsey could've figured the fight was basically over any which way. An annoying feature to the film edit is that when Jess hits the deck for the final, 7th KD, after Pecord tolls 3, he then moves closer to the ring apron as if syncing himself with the time keeper - then they switch to film of the bell sounding - then back to Pecord who we see toll 2 more times then stop - notably he doesn't wave Jess as "out", and he does appear to be pointing to Dempsey's corner - as if perhaps sending Jack back to his corner for an officially, still active bout.

So we're missing some footage (interesting if there is raw, pre-edit footage available) but from what we can see, it might corroborate reports that Pecord did stop counting at 6-7 upon the bell sounding. As Dempsey climbs through the ropes, he isn't actually out of the ring yet when Kearns already begins conferring with Pecord - who obviously tells Kearns the fight isn't over.

 

Clip of Jess and Jack reenacting on 1 March 1939.

57 yo Jess weighs in but unfortunately the edit cuts out the announcement of his weight. A pretty fit looking, 43 yo, near 44 yo, Dempsey weighs in fully clothed at 205 lbs. I understand the old Mauler found it hard to pull his punches but gee, he puts a little steam on a couple of his "playful" punches on Jess.

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Yeah, both Schmeling and Maurellio were nr. 1 contenders. Not sure about Baer, but maybe he was too.

Louis surely has the record for first round KO's in title fights.

 

Was that the fight where he had to batter his opponent's balls when the increasingly shopworn lightheavy who had got beaten in an eliminator (but somehow ended up with the title shop anyways) wouldn't follow script? That performance was not exactly a ringing endorsement.