Head to head, Is Luis Ortiz the best southpaw heavyweight of all time?

Others have beaten him much more easily.

Look, lets hit the rest button here. Which Wilder fight are you, as a fan, proud of?

Duahpas?
Stivern?
Washington?

Which fight do you think announces Wilder as a great champion?

 

Povetkin when Duhaupas had one day's notice and Yoka when he was shot. But not Teper or Miller on full camps, neither of whom could stop Duhaupas over 12, despite both men being very potent KO threats.

Wilder’s best wins:

Stiverne 1: world title debut, never gone past 4 rounds before, expected to be “exposed” by many, close to even odds, massive step up in level of opponent, 12 round near-shut out UD with one KD against a slow footed but heavy, big punching, iron chinned, determined, aggressive, experienced, heavyweight champion

Ortiz 1: 7th consecutive defence, step up in level of opponent, 10th round stoppage with three KD’s against a slow footed but heavy, big punching, determined, skilled, experienced, southpaw undefeated contender and future 2x world title challenger, came back from being outboxed and hit with a flurry of flush bombs in the 7th, didn’t get knocked down

Breazeale: 9th consecutive defence, brutal 1st round one-punch KO against a defensively challenged and slow but tall, rangy, heavy, heavy handed, determined, rough, Olympian and 2x world title challenger, got rid of Breazeale 6 rounds earlier than rival Joshua

Duhaupas and Ortiz 2 round out the top 5 wins, the list compares favourably with great champion Vitali's. The first and third fights in the Fury-Wilder trilogy demonstrate Wilder's abilities more than some of his best wins as no one (not Wlad, Cunningham, Wallin and certainly not Chisora or Whyte) has come closer to beating Fury.

 

Breazeale and Duhaupas are not good wins. They are not first tier opponents and Wilder underperformed about Duhapuas.

Ortiz 1...the guy was only medically cleared to fight the day of the fight because of his high blood pressure. He is an unhealthy, aging man. And Wilder still needed to help of the refs in the second fight.

Stiverne? He has a disease from obesity where he was literally pissing fat out of his blood stream.

These were mostly shameful opponents. He could not help that he had to fight Stivene the first time...but a rematch?

I am just going to let the community decide this?
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...egitimate-body-of-work-for-a-champion.688621/

POST SCRIPT:

Not looking good for your boy...
Does Wilder have a legitimate body of work
Edit

1. 
   Yes
   2 vote(s)
   14.3%
2. *
   No
   12 vote(s)
   85.7%

 

Ouch! Game, set and match.

 

"Breazeale and Duhaupas are not first tier opponents"

The opponent doesn't need to be "first tier" for a win to be good. If you blow out Breazeale in 1 round and dominate Duhaupas, winning virtually every round and handing him his first stoppage defeat, these are good wins. Not great wins but definitely good.

"Ortiz is an unhealthy, aging man."

Ali had high blood pressure before the Liston fight and blood pressure pills can be a means to mask PED use. What's relevant is Ortiz's ability not his age and he was 5th/6th Ring ranked in both meetings, performed well against mutual opponents with Joyce, Chisora, Pulev, Takam, Whyte, Parker and the old man is still relevant in the division 5.5 years later, with AJ's conqueror Ruiz attempting to duck a 43 year old Ortiz with two stoppage defeats. Abel Sanchez went on record saying he wasn't willing to put a post-Wilder 1 Ortiz in with Joyce, despite Joyce being a de-facto gold medalist at SHW and having 11 years of boxing experience.

A valid criticism which you didn't mention is that Wilder had a bodyguard doctor giving him an extra 20 seconds to recover at the start of the 8th round. Does that trump AJ's British stoppages against Takam and Wlad, his bodyguard referee against Parker or his 22 ft. ring against an untrained Ruiz?

"Stiverne has a disease from obesity where he was literally pissing fat out of his blood stream."

Stiverne is a well known excuse maker. If he had any health problems after the fight it was due to getting the sh*t punched out of him for 12 rounds by Wilder. He was in the best form of his career, coming off dominant back to back wins over one of Vitali's best wins in Arreola.

Wilder had a rematch against Stiverne because he wanted to be able to say that he'd KO'd every opponent he'd ever fought. It was a poor defence but not nearly as bad as some claimed. After more aging and inactivity, coming back at least 35 lbs past his optimal fighting weight against Joyce, Stiverne made it to the 6th and landed many flush counters. He landed nothing on Wilder and got blown out in 1 round.

"Does Wilder have a legitimate body of work"

15-31 currently, not bad considering all of the exaggerated/nonsense muckraking campaigns. Fighters are usually least appreciated when they are active so it's no surprise.

 

Stop this.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...egitimate-body-of-work-for-a-champion.688621/

 

Wilder went life and death with Duhaupas by forum standards. He certainly didn't dominate every round.

 

Usyk and Moorer said hello

 

Wilder and AJ can`t box, Wilder did great v Fury in their third fight considering his lack of ability, AJ is limited but okay on the backfoot with a good right hand and an uppercut, their losses ruin whatever resume they had end of story.

 

I thought his win over Jennings was quite impressive. Jennings had arguably just taken 4-5 rounds off Wlad. Obviously yes he didn’t fight the best opposition during his career for a few reasons but based off the eye test he looked very good. Don’t see why he couldn’t be considered one of the best southpaws HWs considering how few of them there are.

 

Usyk, Sanders, Byrd and Moorer probably all better than him.

 

This. Ortiz was both unlucky in that he got a titleshot too late, but Ortiz also made a huge mistake stepping aside so Joshua could fight Wlad. It made no sense for Ortiz to be stepping aside considering how old he was already.

Ortiz basically threw away both 2016 and 2017 in worthless fights. Ortiz was also a fool for thinking Hearn was going to honor matching Joshua with him after coming off the Wlad win. Ortiz from 2015-2016 would’ve had a much better chance at beating Wilder, since his legs were still good, but by 2018 he was just too old.

I remember on this forum some members saying Usyk should step aside so Joshua could fight Fury and put his career on hold, which I thought was ridiculous, but Usyk unlike Ortiz forced his mandatory status and beat Joshua before he got too old.

Usyk would’ve ended up like Ortiz if he had to wait until he was several years older or in Ortiz’s case 39 for getting a titleshot.

 

Holy effing eff! I actually agree with you on something!

 

You list Stiverne and Ortiz as experienced. Neither has more than one notable win to date. They were experienced fighting bums. Neither one is worth a damn.

 

Jennings didn't look like the same fighter at all though, IMHO he barely looked interested at all (bit like Wlad didn't against Fury).

It's still his best win, but it's not exactly a special win in my book.

And this is kinda the point... The eye test is only worth a damn when you're fighting quality fighters, lots of guys look good to the eye until they step up and get exposed - Ortiz could very easily have been just one more for the list, but we'll never know that now.

IMHO Ortiz resume doesn't even measure up against Chisora's - everyone agrees Chisora is a gatekeeper, so why does a guy with a worse resume get regarded as (at one point) a top 5 heavy and there are even guys claiming he's some kind of ATG southpaw heavy??
Madness.