Head to head, Is Luis Ortiz the best southpaw heavyweight of all time?

Joyce's 3 stoppages as an amateur were very different to Wilder's stoppages.

Joyce first stoppage was to Joshua ending in the ref stopping the fight and he had a TKO loss to Beguerni in a fight where he took two standing 8 counts meaning he didn't even go down. Suffice to say Joyce's, poor defence combined with amateur boxing's tendency to stop fights if a fighter takes too many clean shots led to these two stoppages but they were nothing like Wilder's stoppages.

The one time we know Joyce was definitely dropped was against Kuzmin where he took a monster shot that literally knocked him on his ass and he got up at 4 and didn't even look remotely hurt. Suffice to say in Joyce's 3 stoppage losses he's probably never looked genuinely hurt unlike Wilder.

 

Kuzmin had Joyce down twice iirc. Joyce's facial expression never changes but his legs weren't under him.

 

He was only down once. But at the start of the round Joyce eats a 3 flush hooks, left hook, right hook, left hook in rapid succession and it knocks him side ways resulting in a standing 8 count. The one knock down he's squared up and so the force of the punch knocks him back onto to his heels and he goes down. So it was more a balance issue combined with poor defence. He took 4 monster shots and never really looked hurt, legs never dipped and his facial expression shows nothing like he hadn't even been hit.

 

I knew you'd pivot and head that route.

• Wilder was dropped by Harold Sconiers
• Wilder was rocked hard by Eric ****ing Molina
  
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• Wilder was close to being stopped by geriatric Ortiz and was out on his feet (needed a bonus 10 seconds at the start of the round to gather his senses)
  
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• Was wobbled by Haye in sparring with 16oz gloves and headgear
• Was hurt from a Szpilka jab

Not to mention his glass legs:

• Deontay "My 40lb suit was too heavy, that's why I lost" Wilder

 

Simply no, because Usyk is a southpaw

 

Yer but this was 65yo Ortiz. The OP is talking 50-60 prime Ortiz who put on a clinic against Wilder*

Before he got KO'd

 

Wilder sucks so none of this proves anything.

 

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Just as Brighton said. Where's he put down twice here? How are his legs not under him when he gets up?

Compare to Wilder vs Romanov, Wilder is clearly very hurt, legs dipping etc. Very different, and more emphatic, stoppage. And his shakiness progressed throughout his pro career. Joyce has looked solid as a rock.

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Everybody puts on a clinic on beyonce wilder, nothing impressive about it.

 

I just watched it again. Joyce didn't look hurt but he got stagged by the initial flurry and then put on his backside in quick succession. If you get taken out in 34 seconds by Kuzmin, TKO'd in 1 by some unknown Algerian and stopped in 1 by AJ then there's grounds for questioning your punch resistance, especially as Joyce was far more experienced and physically mature than Wilder when he got stopped the 2nd and 3rd times.

The question was never whether Wilder had a better chin than Joyce anyway. I raised Joyce to dispute the validity of writing off a fighter's chin based (in this case) on one early amateur stoppage. Some fool was trying to make an equivalence between that and quitting dropped 4 times and quitting against Ruiz as an established champion.

 

AJ was dropped by Whyte and stopped by Nistor in the amateurs. Wilder was dropped once as a pro in 43 fights prior to Fury 2, all the rest is fluff.

Ruiz is a light puncher and a nonentity with a best win over a washed up Liakhovich by 10 round decision in a competitive fight, yet he dropped AJ 4 times and made him QUIT, as much as you try to ignore that.

Parker is a joke of a fighter with no heart who lost to Whyte and will probably be fighting Jermaine Franklin in September.

 

Moron

 

Luis beat the crap out of a young Methusalah back in the day

 

Romanov should be Wilder's come back opponent.

 

“All the rest is fluff” - to you, of course. I notice you’re happy to pivot back to amateur records to spin the narrative against Joshua. Cute. Remember when Wilder was dropped by Nichols? Hahaha

Riddle me this:

- Sconiers/Spilzka/Molina are all “light punchers” as you like to put it. More so than Ruiz, by quite a margin.

- Who complained that his ring walk suit tired his body to exhaustion before the first Fury fight?

- Who was beaten half to death by “the softest punching heavyweight in history” (Wilders words).

- Who needed 3 fights to try and beat that same “feather fisted” heavyweight, only to be exposed to the point he semi retired?

BUMSQUAAAAAAAD

Also, NEET you never confirmed whether you changed your Reddit name too. It was entertaining to see you plead for ways to obtain the unemployment benefit as you were sick of your mum asking you to get a job.