Most overrated fighter in history?

But the act of 'overrating' is relative.

 

George Foreman nailed it when he said Ali wasn't the greatest boxer but the greatest man who ever boxed. Greatness isn't synonymous with flawless because he was certainly flawed like all of us. His cultural impact was enormous. Historical figures from Elvis to Sadat wanted to bask in his presence . And, yeah, he was a pretty decent fighter.

 

Ali could train when he wanted during the time he was away from boxing. I know a guy who sparred with Ali at Mack Lewis's gym in Baltimore during that time. He said Ali just wanted to spar anybody available and he was available. Ali was young and he loved the spotlight and boxing, I would guess that he sparred whenever he stopped by a gym during his time away from fighting.

 

You cant be serious... Put '67 Ali and '48 Charles in the same ring and im pretty sure Charles would have a hard time winning a single round. The 37lbs weight advantage would play a huge factor in this H2H and on top of that its '67 Ali we are talking about. Ali by TKO.

 

Overrated? Nah. I'm not sure any HW ever beats the Ali who steamrolled Williams. Between the H2H ability at his best, the fact he cleaned out the division twice, and his cultural significance, he's the GOAT and not overrated.

 

His cultural significance cannot be overstated, although I guess depending on how you define a man as being "great", I might go with Louis for the greatest man who boxed.

 

The greatest heavyweight that ever lived. But not necessarily the best technically ( Joe Louis anyone?) Ali was blessed with atheletiscim most men his height and weight could only dream of. The man was faster than most Middleweights in history at 6'3" 210-220.
Hrs certainly isn't overrated at heavyweight. The competition he defeated at the weight defeat most heavyweights in other era's. Liston, Frazier, Foreman, and Norton defeat most heavyweights champs from other era's.
He wasn't perfect. He did some things in his youth I'm sure he wished he could take back.( But how many of us haven't? The difference is he had massive media coverage. )
Especially as he aged and matured .
Possibly the toughest world championship caliber fighter in heavyweight history.

 

Greatness is defined by many a thing - the resumé is most important, but for me, personally, the character and intangiables do count.

Ali was a fighting champion and truly defended his belt around the world, as opposed to today's fighter that only fights at MGM, Wembley or Las Vegas.

Here's the thing - many people bring up what he didn't do well as a reason why he wasn't so great and often I believe that people rate him downwards simply based on the hyperbole of some of his fanbase. However, IMO, the fact that he is so often downplayed means by definition he cannot be overrated. For every fanatic there is a vocal hater. Here's what we do know:

• He did bloody good against stellar competition for a man with no fundamentals, who was primarily a jab and straight right head hunter.
• His competition is elite - you will struggle to find many fighters that dominated the best part of two decades with a 3.5 year enforced absence.
• His humanitarian achievements outside the ring elevate his status above other sporting greats such as Michael Jordan, Pele, Gretzky, Phelps, Woods etc. People don't just associate his greatness with his boxing abilities and I do believe that many people don't like that cos it gives him an uneven playing field - tough luck. It is what it is.
  
• He held the HW championship of the world when there was one truly recognised HW champion and like it or not, the HWs are the big daddies of the sport. They may not be as skilled and yes, economies of scale does mean that there is a greater abundance of skilled fighters at lower weights - but outside of Floyd Mayweather Jr. it is the HWs that capture the imagination, garner the viewing figures and drive the money into the sport. You will always get people paying money to see an Ali or a Dempsey or a Tyson over a Hagler or a Jofre or a Napoles.
• The media elevation of Ali builds his legend and therefore the mindset of the casual fan without historical knowledge of the boxing game and other fighters cannot fathom Ali simply not being a top 20 or 30 ATG fundamentally. Again, IMO, this causes a backlash of frustration amongst certain purists that makes them reduce Ali's in ring qualities and winningness to mere "he took too many punches, had no fundamantels - couldn't do this, that and everything else". Again, it is what it is.
• To me, was Ali the greatest boxer ever - not in skillset, potentially in winningness mentality, but certainly not skillset. Was he the greatest man to carry the HW belt - by definition of achievements and using his status to build a platform to do good works, despite the abominations of his earlier misguided beliefs (very easy to judge people in hindsight without living in their shoes at the time of their existence), I'm not sure how people argue that he isn't no. 1 at HW. The closest is Joe Louis and Ali has better competition and did more with his platform long after Parkinson's reduced him from the formidable man he once was.

 

Certainly Tyson has a very good chance against any other ATG and this forum is full of knowledgeable and informative posts addressing Tyson versus other ATG. All that is fine and good.

However, there are also cases were the enthusiasm with Tyson (or any other ATG) goes off the rails and he is portrayed as essentially unbeatable while Ali, Louis, Sonny, Larry, etc., are by opposition portrayed like just a glorified "bum of the month" club with zero chances against Tyson.

And it is not an issue just with Tyson. I have seen Ali, Duran, Wlad, Holmes, Leonard, Fairweather, etc, getting also the "absolutely unbeatable" treatment.

 

So many good posts here.

I must only say that in my book Ali is the GOAT, the greatest boxer who ever jumped into the ring. His achievements, in and out the ring personality, global impact, sport and cultural significance is second to none.... and yes, EVEN ALI can be overrated because technically he was no perfect and had his flaws.

 

Maybe Elvis was not the best singer ever... but dang sure he is the GOAT singer.
Maybe Tom Brady is not the best QB ever... but dang sure he is the GOAT QB.
Maybe Ali is not the best boxer ever... but dang sure he is the GOAT boxer.

Deal with it.

 

Mike Tyson and the other Tyson.
Mike had a good run, but his invincibility was a mirage. Very weak psyche that could be manipulated by smart boxers like Holyfield and Lewis. Now he's kind of a guru and is a lot more fun than the bully Mike.

The other Tyson....I really don't need to bring up all his faults and weak resume. We all know them.

 

I forgot the poster but there was a poster who said that posters who think Ali was all athleticism and no skill were wrong or didn't know what they were seeing or didn't understand what they were seeing, and I was one of those posters. He mentioned little things like how Ali blocked punches with his elbows. That got me thinking.

 

Tyson is an ATG but he had a lot of bad losses in his prime or near prime. His fans will explain them away . When you're explaining you're losing to dispassionate observers.

 

No blowing my own horn, might have been me a few years back.

I sometimes go through extensive study of fighters and have often said, you can see the perfect blend of Ali's fundamentals, athletics and reflexes in the first Liston fight.

He blocks body shots with elbows and parries jabs, shows excellent footwork and balance, when shifting and pivoting, angling off, protecting his chin behind the shoulder. He slips inside and outside the jab, counters with right hands and jabs and moves his head off centre. He switches the rhythm of his jabs, throws doubles and even triples on beat, off beat, corkscrewing them, whipping and slashing (look at how many people's faces he cut up, swelled or bruised off the jab). He did sometimes throw hooks and especially jabs to the body, protecting his own body by blading off and getting out of the danger zone when his legs were good enough to do it.

I have never said Ali was fundamentally consistent, but do we really believe that an Olympic gold medalist, HW champion, who defied the rule book, wanted to impose his own style, tempted wild swings with hands down so that he could frustrate and counter didn't know the rudiments of the rulebook himself?