Muhammad Ali (74 version) vs Mike Tyson (88 Version) in Zaire 1974

Ali would try to frustrate him by jabbing and moving, an ever moving target punching in flurries, looking good but not scoring consistently, as Tyson will do what 80s Tyson did when up against guys who don’t want to go toe to toe.…box on the front foot and build up a points lead.
Contrary to some people’s opinion, 1980s Tyson didn’t run out of gas…well not over 12 rounds anyway.

So in this fight, after 12 rounds, Ali’s corner tells him he has to go for it as he’s 2 rounds down. So in round 13 the fireworks really start as Ali goes for broke, trying to back up Iron Mike, who is showing signs of gassing. Round 13 goes to Ali. Round 14, Tyson comes out swinging in an attempt to regain the upper hand, but Ali is on his toes again, jabbing and moving, Tyson is hitting air as Ali takes the 14th.
It’s even going into…
Round 15…And Tyson connects clean, knocking Ali down! Ali is up at 8, and the rest of the fight involves both of them trading punch for punch. The bell rings for the end of the fight…the knockdown proves crucial as Tyson wins this battle.

They have a rematch 2 years later but it is now the 1990 version of Tyson, and rumour has it that Iron Mike has not been training, he’s been womanising and drinking. Ali stops him in the 9th round after Tyson floors him in the 8th. There is some controversy over a long count but Tyson has been beaten for the first time!

That 2nd scenario sounds very familiar…!

 

Maybe so but did the 88 version of Tyson have a fighter stand up to him and actually fight him like Douglas did that night? He did not and any version of Tyson would get frustrated etc…. When this happened! He never faced adversity etc… in 88 etc…. Any version of Tyson does not deal well with this. Now maybe if he had Rooney etc…. Trained he deals with it better. Douglas had the blueprint to beat any version of Tyson if executed properly. 88 Tyson is not gonna like a stiff Jab from Ali or Holmes etc…. Just my opinion.

 

I dont think Ali would be laughing while being hit by Tyson.

 

He was laughing while being hit by Foreman and Shavers much harder punchers.

 

And making fun of them. He basically pooped all over George's terrifying power and said things like "that all you got?".

Called him a little girl and that he was embarassing himself in front of all the pretty African ladies.

I don't think Mike could take it. And count me as a fan of prime Mike, for sure.

 

All respect, but both Pinklon Thomas and James Tillis stood up to him. Thomas was actually doing quite well after the first round, and even the commentators were wondering what Mike was going to do.

Tillis shocked everyone by handling Mike pretty damn well, better than anyone up to him (and most after).

Thomas actually had the best chance of beating him out of all the men he faced up to that point, he just got too relaxed I think.

 

I wouldn’t say prime Mike gassed or couldn’t go 12 rounds. However, he became incrementally that much less effective as the rounds rolled by. A similar view was held regarding Dempsey. Jack Johnson described Dempsey as a Sabre Toothed Tiger for the first 4 rounds but after that, simply a good fighter.

To be fair though, when you tore out for the kill from opening bell as Mike and Jack did, the intensity level of performance can only go down, not up in relative terms - but the quality of performance can still be teasingly high. (EDIT: “Teasingly”? - Auto correct moves in mysterious ways)

There would be contentions over what might happen up until then but I think if 74 Ali is still fine by rounds 5-6-7 (which I think he would be) then Mike’s chances drop exponentially and Ali proceeds to truly dominate.

 

Fo

Imo Tyson hit harder then foreman. Foremans wrist were 8in like Tysons but Tysons fist were bigger 13in to Foremans 12 1/2in. Foremans reach was 78 1/2in to Tysons 71in. And
Tysons speed was alot faster than Foremans so faster speed with less travel (shorter reach) and bigger fist.
So Tysons less distance but more speed + velocity + force = more power.

 

I would say Tyson if it's set for 12. That's only fair since he was accustomed to 12 rounders. Ali fighting off the ropes didn't work on Frazier or Norton and it wouldn't work on Tyson for similar reasons. Tyson threw short, sharp, compact combinations when he was facing a cautious guy. He'd dig into the body and pace himself well winning points by staying busy and cutting off the ring when Ali attempted to dance.

The key here would be that Tyson avoids 3 things: 1) letting Ali get in his head 2) blowing his load trying to finish Ali if he hurt him, and 3) getting lazy with his head movement and allowing Ali to find his rhythm popping the jab out. If he can remain composed and sticks to the game plan chipping away at Ali with short compact punches, being defensively responsible, and avoiding the temptation to bum rush Ali in an attempt to KO him he can win a close but clear decision. If Tyson loses his cool or it's set for 15, I'd have to favor Ali.

 

Funny thing is Foreman DID hurt him. He was out on his feet by his own admission and pissing blood for a month afterwards.

 

Should be easy win for Tyson as this is the strongest version of him, but do like the mental tactics mentioned earlier. Rooney did keep him under check, while Ali outsmarted George.

 

Sorry but 88 Tyson is overrated and 74 Ali beats him.

 

Foreman definitely hit harder than Tyson.
Tyson was more effective in combinations, & being hit more often in a short time, not seeing them coming can mean a lot more than less punches thrown harder-since you can only increase force so much compared to another big hitter, but a Tyson can deliver a lot more-& sometimes unseen/unbraced for punches in a short time. The difference in this means Tyson can hit you with more total force...

Also the Tales of the Tape are sometimes notoriously bad.
I recall Foreman's wrist listed as 12" during his comeback-which is insane. Although at that size I'll bet it was more than 8".

Look at Foreman's hands in any context, closed fist, pointing during an interview-& Mike's.
Some dimensions are routinely exaggerated. Although Holyfield & Tyson's chest & biceps size seemed if anything at least a little low...
But Foreman did not have "only" a 12.5" fist.

EDIT: I doubt anyone will be remotely skeptical considering comparing Tyson's thick but not particularly large hands for a HW of any era.
Compared to these images of Foreman's [url]Ham Hands[/url].

I would bet my LIFE that Foreman has a bigger fist. And it is not close.

 

Ok but how would we settle the bet if your not recognizing the tale of the tape as being legit? If you can provide your source of the wrist and fist size you claim I would love to see it.

 

How will we settle the bet? We got bigger problems than a reliable source if I lose a bet where I volunteered to die if I lose---> do I take my own life or we arrange a contract killing?

But seriously, first I can look further for a late career listing for Foreman's wrist size, but it is irrelevant because I was saying that the 12" was absurd-not that I know exactly what it was, likely 8 & a fraction though, since I'll bet he was not less than the 8" listed in his first career, then he got heavier.

He also "grew" in height & wingspan in his second career lol!

As for his fist size that is easy.
I do not know what it is, but just look at videos of Tyson & Foreman & you will see that even against a bigger background body, Foreman has larger, enormous hands.
In any measure that contributes to fist size, chiefly width & thickness, I do not think

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will say that Foreman's mitts are not larger.
Someone wrote here about him needing special gloves, but you only have to look to see that like his one time mentor Liston, he had massive hands. Tyson, not so much.

So if you found a Tale of the Tape where Tyson's fists were listed as larger than Foreman's, that is an instructive example of how distorted they can be.

Some of his endless TV appearances...[url]https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=george+foreman[/url]
EDIT: even better, as upgraded in my last post above, see any of these [url]Foreman's balled up fist images.[/url]