Boxing coaches: What are the biggest things that Classic threads miss?

I think the mental aspect of boxing is largely overlooked in fantasy matchups.

It’s like ‘I see this guy on video and I see that guy on video, so this is what would happen’ — but it ain’t no video game in there. Now obviously we cannot project with crystal ball certainty how that mental aspect would play out, but fantasy matchups are speculative on every level. I’d like to see more people try to incorporate that.

Also recognizing that styles make fights and more discussion of that would be good. Seeing Fighter A do things a certain way against Fighter B doesn’t mean he’d do it that way against a completely different style (and if you watch enough film of someone, you’d almost certainly see the same fighter use different approaches). This is especially true when people don’t bother to look how a guy did against southpaws when he’s matched with one in a fantasy matchup.

Then there’s the ‘best version of’ thing we always use, but to me it is easy to pretend a wildly inconsistent fighter is going to magically show up at his best. Now from the best portion of a guy’s career, sure, but for some that is still a swing of consistency owed to bad training habits and general lack of discipline and motivation.

 

It's not a "blind spot" or a what one misses and the other sees, it's that the fan and the coach are looking at different things. The fan is usually looking at results, a spectacular win often will sell the fan on a fighter. The coach is often looking at why the fighter looked good and what his opponent did that either contributed to his performance or hurt it. A few days ago someone posted a HL video of Marciano - Matthews. My biggest memory of that fight is that Matthews lifted his back foot off the canvas when he jabbed and when he threw his right hand. I couldn't get past that, I forgot about what was going on and just watched Matthews' feet after that. I have no idea if Matthews did that in all of his fights. I've always been taught that if the feet are wrong, everything above the feet will be wrong too. Matthews feet were wrong.
When I read that Archie Moore had called Matthews a west coast hype job, I thought he probably saw the same thing.

 

For a time I created scouting reports for the camp of a world champion. When I would do that, I would watch film completely differently than I do as a fan.

I looked for patterns, tendencies, how the fighter reacted to certain things (some guys react to hand feints but some react more to foot feints, for instance), etc. Can you get him out of his comfort zone by making him lead, or does he lose a little steam if he can’t back you up? Maybe getting out of the corner fast to claim the center of the ring on the front foot halts his momentum a little bit … or he doesn’t handle pivots well on the inside. Etc.

I would also do a psychological profile, looking at the guy’s interviews and clips on YouTube where he’s shown not in a fight and reading up on what’s been written about him that might be useful — what insecurities show up, what could you say in the lead up to a fight that might nudge him off his game a bit. Some guys feed off anger and you want to be less confrontational, some go into a shell when you go at them a bit, etc. Or maybe he mentions that he had trouble finding good sparring and even if he’s had a full camp, you drop a casual mention about how you’ve had world-class sparring for years and been in camp with all these champions to remind him that he hasn’t had those advantages … make him feel small. Or if his coach does all the talking, maybe you say ‘we’ve already heard from your mouthpiece over there, why doesn’t he let you speak for yourself’ to drive a little wedge.

 

Matthews was a very talented fighter. Problem was he was scared to death of Marciano. They developed a plan to tie Marciano up on the inside. Just do quick little one twos then tie up (probably the reason of him lifting his back foot because he was in a mad rush to tie up. The Nardico v Matthews fight is a fun fight to watch and can get a better take on the man.

someone already mentioned the mental aspect of fighters. That’s a good one

 

That sounds like “Instant Replay” by Jerry Kramer, still one of the best sports books I’ve ever read.

One thing I liked to work with some guys on was foot feints with a hard stomp on the front foot. It’s almost impossible for someone not to react to sound. If you had a ring that was a bit noisy, they’d bite every time (especially a little jab feint with the left to go along with it and run them into the right).

I would also sometimes have ‘code’ instructions for feints. We’d plan for me to say ‘1-2’ and feint the 1-2 and throw a hard hook … the opponent would hear the instructions and think he knows what’s coming and it’s amazing how they’d fall for it time and again in the same fight if you spaced them out.

 

I'm just going to call you on your BS .. whether you like it or not .... thats all .. and for someone who just challenged me in the other thread .. and now is saying that how mental toughness is so important in the Sport ?? YOUR WORDS.... and someone like Pat M, you, and his students have been laughing at Greb for how he looks in his " warm up" video .. well doesn't that make his " mental toughness" all the more OFF THE CHARTS , given his resume ?? considering he looks like **** on film? again , calling you on your BS ... I've been following this sport WAY TOO LONG to slop up your BS and Pat M's

 

Mental toughness =/= mental aspect.

The mental aspect of boxing may include toughness but is not limited to it.

Do you really not understand this? That fighters have different mindsets and different abilities to mentally process information? That discipline is mental? That the ability to think in the ring and adjust is a mental rather than physical aspect of the sport?

I’m glad you toned down your hostility. But I am worried for you.

 

why dont you just cut to the chase? For some of us who have been watching boxing for over 40 years .. Who are all these hall of fame fighters you are personally coaching?? This " self -proclaimed" boxing expert is getting so ****ing old ... you only got guy's like Saint paint sucking you off ?? what are your accolades ?? You talking **** about Greb ALL These Years .. SO SPIT IT OUT OR GTFO

 

SPIT IT OUT ... who are these successful fighters you are training ?? Look at the OP? Boxing coaches ?? You and Pat M all over the thread ... Spit it out or STFU .. WHO ARE ALL THE FIGHTERS YOU ARE TRAINING ?? lesson to you and him ... mental toughness ?? HARRY GREB

 

Yes I coached amateurs and coached and managed pros.

Who I handled isn’t your business. Not going to doxx myself.

If this thread, or this forum, is only for Hall of Famers to discuss boxing, I’ll follow you out because you surely do not qualify.

 

If a successful boxer, arguably the most successful boxer ever is performing in an odd and weird style, wouldn’t you think maybe there’s something I don’t understand? Instead of “Oh he’s terrible”

 

Ya thats what they usually say .... Shop worn Greb Beat Tunneys ass twice giving up 12 and then again 8 ... but you knew that right ??
Ya just dont quote me with a BS boxing lecture with your delusions of grandeur .. Some of us have been around a bit longer than that

 

What in the world do you keep bringing up Greb for?

You ever box yourself btw?

 

most coach full of the **** in professional. I boxed & train amateur & professional sparring for try make living also. in around the world 3 continent when young man. I seen it. too many most of trainer on ego game & look for money & fame off sweat & ability of fighter & talk the ****. everywhere this is happen. I see it. my best coach is was amateur in Arab country no fake just work with all kids & no talk nonsense just show how is boxing. hard work & basic. Good Boxing. humble man

when I come to Europe & London I see nonsense & America gym. I seen brain damage of young just on sparring & with trainer telling lies in technical talk to pretend teacher like professor while kid give him money for bad equipment & beating by contender with money go to trainer. or tell young boxer no spar just hit pad &;get ego shout at boxer useless ' drill "" to be in ring . man who cannot fight. just investor of gym & talk **** all day

this ' coaches' with professional licence training on the ""ego " game. like pimp really.not the boy club amateur only in professional. you see this trainers take even some take millions into bank from fighter! or try control young boxer mind manipulate. you cannot believe what I seen!