Jean Claude Bouttier - how good was he?

Just to be clear, youre basing your opinion on one fight in which he lost every round, was knocked down once, and quit between rounds?

 

Why would you spend so long watching a sub par fighter?

 

So I take it you didn’t rate him Klompton?

 

I saw his fights with Monzon onTV, think they were on WOS? And his fights with Finnegan and Sterling.maybe on Grandstand?
He was a decent Euro level fighter imo ,ranked no 4 both times he challenged Monzon, so the defences could be justified on that level, again imo.Here are the end of year ratings for 71 &71.

1971

1. [url]Bunny Sterling[/url]
2. [url]Emile Griffith[/url]
3. [url]Denny Moyer[/url]
4. [url]Jean-Claude Bouttier[/url]
5. [url]Rodrigo Valdez[/url]
6. [url]Bennie Briscoe[/url]
7. [url]Rafael Gutierrez[/url]
8. [url]Koichi Wajima[/url]
9. [url]Miguel de Oliveira[/url]
10. [url]Eugene (Cyclone) Hart[/url]

1972

1. [url]Emile Griffith[/url]
2. [url]Tony Mundine[/url]
3. [url]Miguel de Oliveira[/url]
4. [url]Jean-Claude Bouttier[/url]
5. [url]Koichi Wajima[/url]
6. [url]George Cooper[/url]
7. [url]Bennie Briscoe[/url]
8. [url]Nate Collins[/url]
9. [url]Bunny Sterling[/url]
10. [url]Juan Carlos Duran[/url]

Bouttier beat both Duran and Sterling.I discount his "win " over Griffith that appears to have been a hometown shaft job. Monzon had beaten Griffith,Moyer ,Briscoe,and Mundine by the time of the 2 nd Bouttier fights, so I think he can be forgiven for taking an easy, lucrative rematch.Looking at the top ten for both those years,apart from Griffith,Valdez,and Briscoe the rest don't look too formidable.

Big punching Cyclone Hart's resume isn't very compelling, Wajima I've never seen but note he was a Jnr Middle so maybe too small to be a real threat to Carlos? I don't beliieve anyone has said Bouttier was anything other than a ranked contender,so why the vitriol directed at posters Quien Sabe?

 

Asking what fights someone has seen of a fighter to judge how informed their opinion is is vitriol?

 

I think I can hear a duck farting in the distance.

 

So I can come on here and lord it over you, who have only seen a couple of his fights ? lol

[url]7 Warning Signs Someone Has A Superiority Complex | YourTango[/url]

 

Or maybe Im just a boxing fan who enjoys watching fights. You gonna answer my question as to why asking what fights someone has seen to inform such a high opinion is taken by you as vitriol? So far from you, youve seen 3 losing efforts and a win over a domestic level fighter and the other guy saw one fight which was a one sided loss. That was my point exactly and your defensiveness over it just highlights your insecurity over the shaky position youve chosen to take up. Quoting two separate sets of annual ratings (one of which wasnt even from a year Monzon defended against Bouttier) changes nothing from my statement. Bouttier was no better than a domestic clubfighter. It didnt take a Monzon to beat him or even a fighter of any repute whatsoever. He was the beneficiary of a lot of home cooking or you likely would have never heard from him. In his first fight with Monzon he lost every round, was dropped, and quit. After the fight he said he was so scared he couldnt even remember the fight and felt like he was in a tunnel throughout. He didnt deserve his second shot after his one sided loss in the first but Monzon for damn sure wasnt going to fight his number 1 contender Valdez and when his friend Alan Delon offered to promote an easy bout between he DeLons friend Bouttier Monzon jumped at the chance. The only reason Bouttier appeared better this time was that it was very cold at the outdoor venue. Bouttier had trained his entire camp outdoors in the cold to acclimate. Monzon refused to acclimate stating that training outdoors in the cold would only serve to catch flu. As a result it took him a long time to warm up. When he finally did warm up it was a typical Monzon performance as he patiently wore down Bouttier, dropped him three times, and took the decision.

 

I didnt know he was a subpar fighter until I had watched a lot of his fights. I dont have the ability of some here to determine his greatness based on a couple of fights he lost.

 

I would judge him to be a level or two above "Euro club fighter." He trained at the 5th St and Gleason's as well as other US gyms and had some skills. He beat enough difficult fighters (Hayward, DeLima, Sterling...) to deserve his ranking. He was tough and game and durable on top of his speed and skills.

 

European champion, and each poster will give that the gravitas they think it deserves, depending on the level of opposition he had to overcome to win it. For me he was a level above a club fighter ,but then ,I am just a fan of the sport and not an expert on it

.ps I can still hear that duck farting.

 

It's a gas Liston 73. Lol.

 

He didnt beat Hayward any more than he beat Griffith and it took him three tries to beat DeLima and that one victory came when DeLima was 3-3 in his last six bouts and would go 4-2 in his next six bouts. I think by favorably comparing him to limited lights like Delima and Sterling you are proving my point. If you want to be a boxrec warrior and throw out names with no context like "well sterling beat Rodriguez" or "Delima beat Benton" be my guest. Just keep in mind that glossy names are meaningless without context and Rodriguez was completely shot when Sterling beat him and Benton was so shot and so disappointed by his loss to DeLima he retired. He was 37, Rodriguez was 34. Im not sure why training at the 5th St gym or Gleasons would be proof that Bouttier was no clubfighter. Is the point that no clubfighters ever training at those gyms? I'll posit the same question to you as I did to everyone else defending Bouttier's credentials: Which fights of his have you seen of his? Here let me guess, the two Monzon losses and maybe his loss to Finnegan... Sorry, Im not convinced by the arguments of people who have only seen him lose clearly but want to boost him because it makes Monzon's record look better. He was nothing special.

 

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