Wladimir Klitscko - ATG?

If he is in any other era doubt we would have ever heard of him. Didn’t have much skill faced some pathetic competition. And had a glass jaw. If he is around from the 1960’s-1990’s he is a nobody. That said he did dominate his era and was champ a long time

 

Nope; you are not alone.
I think quite the same about Wlad and I suspect we are not just a few.

Wlad was still fighting not so long ago, so I suspect he is enjoying the "fresher is better" bias... I saw the same happening with Tyson. When Tyson retired it was like every other thread was proclaiming him the "undisputed ATG of ATG ever and for all eternity".

But time settles things. Nowadays I think Tyson's career is better understood and appreciated in a more balanced way.

IMO same thing is going to happen with Wlad in 10-15 years; by then the consensus will probably be that although Wlad is an ATG, he is a "lesser" one.

 

Ten years as champ and ruled as long as he did?? You could not do much better than that. He is a ATG.

 

Sure! Top ten. The man held the title for so long, all those successful defenses. I don't know how many he could have beaten that were better at the time. He beat the best that were there.

He was a great fighter. I believe I have him just under Iron Mike at #10.

 

I have always rated Vitali a lot higher than Wlad.

 

A big NO for me. Not a legit contender for top 10-12.

 

Absolutely. Dominated for a decade

 

Him being in a weak era isn't his fault. You can only beat whos in front of you. He dominated for a decade and Steward himself (Lewis's trainer) acknowledged him as a great

 

I can’t stand to watch him fight but yeah he accomplished a lot.

But he ducked that Vitali guy so you have to hold that against him.

 

He did avenge the defeat to Brewster in definitive fashion.

I don't think his opposition was all that mediocre. He beat A LOT of good fighters. There weren't a lot of other HoF heavyweights for him to compete with at the time, but Chris Byrd, Sam Peter x2, Brewster, Rahman, Chagaev, Pulev and Povetkin plus other former titlists isn't a bad resume compared to some of the guys Joe Louis or Larry Holmes defended against. Or Tommy Burns for that matter.

"unfair physical advantage?" well that's called heavyweight boxing baby.

yes he was boring. but most people rate based on resume or h2h potential. as i've said before if we were rating favorites he's not in my top 20 hw titlists.

he was never undisputed because he refused to fight his brother and because then the WBC wanted very much to have an american hw champion. the fight with Wilder may have happened if Fury hadn't retired Wlad. But he was recognized by all reasonable fans and authorities as *the* heavyweight champion until Fury beat him.

he has 1 loss in his prime, which he avenged. his prime was from when Manny took over as his trainer until probably sometime between Haye and Wach. which is an 8 year prime, with 1 avenged loss, defeating most of his opponents by KO or near shut-out decisions. Most heavyweight champs in history can't claim even close to a resume like that. He also

Wlad doesn't have any controversial decision wins, which Holmes and Ali and Louis can't claim. Obviously all 3 of those legends are greater than Wlad, but there's an argument there to rank him very high.

 

I’m 100% gonna bully my grandkids over Wlad. I’m gonna talk down to them about all the secret nuances of my eras HW boxers.

 

He's definitely an ATG. You could argue he didn't have the greatest competition out there, but still, he reigned for a decade.
And of course he stands a chance, he obliterates Louis and Marciano, he can beat both on the same night.
It's tougher against Liston, I give Liston the edge.

 

He's my #5 heavyweight, so, yes he is ATG.

As for weak eras etc I think people forget the sort of competition other greats faced that make them 'great'. Wlad would go through Louis' competition like a bull in a china shop.

 

Of course he is an ATG, & definitely top 10.
I share most of the skepticism about what moderates his accomplishments-& will add that getting away with too much clinching due to referee home cooking must be counted against him!

But all those years as champion.
All of those successful defenses.
His era could not have been much weaker than surrounding ones.
And compared to much earlier eras, greater average size & strength makes up for skill deficits.

But there is no way someone can beat so many top HWs as champion for so long & not be somewhat historically great.