Gene Tunney's decision to fight Heeney instead of Sharkey in finale

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jul 14, 2022.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Rickard selected Heeney over Sharkey despite the draw in the finale of the elimination series because he felt Heeneys style was more pleasing.

    Now Tunney claimed

    "There is no contender at the present time who appears capable of attracting real public interest," he said. "If there were I might delay my retirement long enough to face him in the ring, but it looks as if it might take two or three years before a dangerous opponent is developed. That is too long to stand and wait."

    Gene was a smart man. This state above seems like a cop out. Heeney hadn't outright won the elimination series. Tunney/Rickard could have chosen virtually anyone. Heeney was 5'10, he didn't possess any real trump card. He couldn't hit hard, he wasn't fast, wasn't skilled. Just a very average come forward fighter with no significant ability giving up a lot of height and reach to Gene.

    Sharkey may have fought to a draw with Heeney, but Gene had to know that Sharkey was a highly skilled talented boxer at his best with head movement and athleticism. Surely, Gene should have chose Sharkey instead and not just in hindsight. Jack Sharkey had taken Jack Dempsey to the brink of defeat in between his two fights with Tunney. The fight was technically a title eliminator. It ended very controversially. I think Sharkey clearly won rounds 1, 3, and 6, and watching the other rounds on tape, he was well ahead and I would score 5 of the first 6 rounds for Sharkey. Dempsey won it in the 7th controversially, but I think the performance by Sharkey should have been impressive enough to draw Gene's interest for a final fight. If Gene as stated above is all about fighting a "dangerous opponent," surely Sharkey was far more dangerous than Heeney.

    Make you're own educated opinion if you think Dempsey went low. I think the evidence is clear.
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    Also if Tunney was in the market to fight a dangerous opponent, why not choose George Godfrey? Godfrey was rated in the top 10. Tunney never fought any big men his entire career, and Tunney hadn't fought a black man in many years. Godrey also was 6'3 230lb of rock solid muscle with an 80" reach. George was a beast--big, athletic, huge puncher and surprisingly good speed and movement for a man his size. Godfrey handled Larry Gaines fairly easily and Gaines was a boxer in both the mold and style of Tunney.
    https://boxrec.com/media/images//thumb/d/da/92533WI.jpg/400px-92533WI.jpg



    I believe Tunney took the safest exit route choosing Heeney, knowing Heeney possessed zero tools to defeat him. Tunney had no intention of challenging himself against the most dangerous opponent.
     
  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    You said yourself, Tunney didnt choose Heeney, Rickard did. Criticizing Tunney for facing the man the promoter was willing to pay him to fight doesnt hold water. Was there an offer on the table to fight Godfrey or Sharkey? No. There wasnt. Promoters drive the sport. Moreso in that era. If three promoters offered a fight each with Godfrey, Sharkey, and Heeney for equal terms you might be able to quibble but Heeney still turned out no worse than Sharkey in the elimination. Furthermore, Rickard was always looking for exotic foreign fighters to promote against domestic champions. Heeney fit that bill. His record was also just as good in the run up to Tunney as anyones. He had beaten Delaney who had won the first bout of the eliminator against Jack Renault, Jim Maloney, and drawn with both Sharkey and Uzcudun. Then from an aesthetic standpoint Heeney presented the possibility of a better fight, being an aggressive bulldog type fighter to Tunney's boxer rather than the pitting two counter punchers like Tunney and Sharkey against one another and risking a match where the two just stared at each from across the ring for 15 rounds.
     
  3. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Heeney = qualified best
    at the time

    fight with Tunney was announce after Sharkey lost with John Risko . Heeney had win with Risko only few month ago before this

    Heeney win with Risko & draw with Sharkey. 1-0-1
    Risko lose with Heeney & win with Sharkey 1-1
    Sharkey draw with Heeney & lose with Risko 0-1-1
     
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  4. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Great post. I wasn’t up with the finer details so now I feel that much better informed.

    Opinions vary but personally I’ve no doubt Dempsey fouled Sharkey badly, a DQ warranted.

    Protect yourself at all times? LOL, any man hit in the nuts (as I assume we all have been at some stage) knows your universe implodes all the way down to your gonads - impossible to think about anything else.

    Gene’s self rationalised proclamations sounded like those of Jeffries a few decades prior when The Boilermaker neared his own retirement.

    Tunney vs Sharkey would’ve been very interesting. We know the Boston Gob could be erratic but when switched on he was quite the fighter - Gene The Dancing Machine would’ve known this.

    Do you think Sharkey’s poorer performances were due to his fighting down to the level of lesser opposition or was Jack just randomly erratic, opposition notwithstanding?
     
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  5. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sharkey is actual 0-2-1 in last 3 fight when Tunney announcements will fight the Heeney

    0 win
    2 loss
    1 draw

    no. this is not most quality contender at all
     
  6. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    When is your Dempsey book coming out?
     
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    ok, but why didn't Sharkey's near dominant performance vs Dempsey (Which ended very controversially) showcase the talent and skills Sharkey brought to the table? Enough for Rickard and Tunney to admit, let's fight this man.
    When Tunney retired, Sharkey was named immediately to fight for vacant belt. He had to be on Tunney and Rickard's radar.

    Godfrey is an entirely different story, but Tunney claiming he retired because no one out there was "dangerous" seems dishonest. When Tunney retired, Godfrey had climbed up to # 3. He had size, tools, and style that Tunney had never fought before. Tunney doesn't consider him dangerous?
     
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  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    One of those losses was a controversial loss to a Ring Legend in which he was far ahead on the scorecards.
     
  9. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    yes
    0 wins
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Yawn.
    Doesn't matter. Vitali lost to Lewis, but he was so impressive he immediately got a title shot when Lewis retired.

    Sharkey was never granted a rematch vs Dempsey. So he should have been given an outright title shot. Especially since Gene was looking for dangerous opponents, and everyone knew Sharkey had tools to present gene with a lot of problems

    George Godfrey is another story, "no dangerous opponents left!" Right Gene. A 6'3 230lb man with power and speed isn't dangerous? Maybe it was the color his skin
     
  11. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    ok this is your opinion:
    Sharkey 0 wins in 3 last fight does not matter Sharkey loss to Risko & draw with Heeney does not matter. on 'round robin "" Sharkey come out last of the 3, him & Risko & Heeney .. bottom place last. but does not matter because Vitali Klitschko something yes. I see. thank you.
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I understand your little round robin fascination. However, Tunney knew what he was doing. Had Sharkey been given decision vs Heeney, he still would have chosen Heeney. Tunney wanted the easiest mark for his last hurrah.

    Retiring because there are "no dangerous opponents coming up." So Tunney retired. the following year here were the RING MAGAZINE TOP 3

    1. Jack Sharkey
    2. Max Schmeling
    3. George Godfrey

    All 3 in the hall of fame

    All presented unique stylistic challenges
     
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  13. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    think he was purse dollars 1,000,000 for with Heeney fight (how much is this at today dollars?)
    & then he marry rich lady & retire
    this yes it means he knows what he is doing. this is good move rare in the boxing history
     
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  14. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Great post! Tunney was smart a motivated Sharkey would have given him a very tough nights work.
    The public did not respond to the Heeney match and Rickard lost money for choosing the pedestrian New Zealander.
     
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  15. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Again, Rickard was the one who was holding the purse strings. Not Tunney. Sharkey losing controversially to Dempsey allowed Dempsey to get a shot at Tunney. Not Heeney. It was a year later before Sharkey-Heeney resulted in a draw. In that fight Sharkey's performance was panned by most critics. Heeney showed pluck and made the fight while Sharkey was content to lay back and wait for counters. Its no wonder Rickard chose Heeney because, again, two counterpunchers would have been box office poison. Heeney was an exotic attraction and an aggressive fighter who gave the prospect of a better fight from a aesthetic standpoint.

    Sharkey was not named to fight immediately for the vacant title. When Tunney retired Rickard devised a new elimination tournament of which Sharkey was a part. Rickard died before this tournament could move forward and Sharkey fought Stribling in a planned elimination bout which was part of that tournament. It would be two years after Tunney retired that Sharkey ultimately fought for the vacant title. From the time he had drawn with Heeney and lost to Risko (which predated Tunney-Heeney) Sharkey went undefeated, beating Delaney, DeKuh, Christner, Loughran, Stribling, and Scott. Most of those fights were big promotions. Heeney fell apart after losing to Tunney and Schmeling emerged as a threat. These things happen but you cant judge what happened in the summer of 1928 based on what hadnt happened yet.

    As for Godfrey he had just lost to Risko, who had lost in his eliminator, and had a terrible showing against Uzcudun when Tunney fought Heeney. When Tunney retired he stated that ONE of the reasons he was doing so was because he didnt say anyone on the horizon that was dangerous enough to attract the fans attention. He stated that if someone emerged he might be convinced to forgo his retirement. Two weeks later Godfrey, who was coming off two sub par performances, loses to Gains and goes back to fighting ham and eggers for the next two years. Was Tunney wrong? It took two years to find two candidates that emerged as suitable for a vacant title.

    The only thing that changes if Tunney had fought Sharkey or Godfrey is that we would be having this very same discussion but questioning why Dempsey didnt get a rematch when he beat Sharkey on a DQ or why Sharkey or Godfrey was given the title shot over Heeney. When you have one champion in every weight division not every tom dick and harry are going to get title shots just because they have an interesting story and a couple of decent looking wins on boxrec.