Anthony Joshua vs Muhammad Ali who wins this super fight?

Hughie Fury Would be a much harder fight for Joshua. He is a bigger and better runner Than Ali.

 

Weight training + PEDs are a confounding factor. Ali would be a bigger man today than Usyk with equivalent training. It's not like Ali was a cruiserweight in a division of frail cruisers and lightheavies. He was the same sized man as a lot of heavies today; just trained using inferior methods that left him much lighter than he'd be in 2022.

EDIT: To illustrate, heavyweight average BMI apparently was around mid-25s to low 26s for most of the pre-steroid era. The highest average BMI before the steady increase in the modern era came in 1944, at 26.8. Most years weren't nearly that high. See: https://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48797

If we took the absolute heaviest average BMI year from the old school training era and gave it to Joshua, he'd be something like 230 pounds, with a lower % of muscle mass than he has today. That's still quite big, but it closes the gap. And that's assuming the heaviest average BMI year. If Joshua conforms to the year Ali won the title, he'd be closer to 223. Not much heavier than 70s Foreman.

Now, all this being said, Joshua is clearly still a bigger guy than Ali. Athletes have grown. And it doesn't make sense to create some imaginary version of Ali to fight him. I'm just making a more limited point. It's not as if Ali is this tiny lightheavyweight dude. Ali was naturally a very big man. He was deceptively light because of the different training techniques and diet used in his era.

 

With more bulk Ali Would be slower. The famous Ali shuffle punch combo for instance he was below 200...

You cant Keep the Speed but gain power and punch resistance at the same time. Lets face the facts.. he Would either be a runner or a puch bag.

I personally believe that D Chisora Would blast him out in less Than 4 rounds.

 

He was about 210 against Liston

 

You can up to a point if you're using the best methods available today. 60s Ali didn't even lift, let alone do the fancier periodized stuff. He didn't have access to any potions like we do today, either.

Joshua's BMI is 27.7 for the Usyk fight. And he came in deliberately light. Put Ali in the same range thanks to modern toys and he's around 222 pounds. That puts him in the same weight range as Usyk in Joshua I, who was neither a runner nor a punching bag when he beat up Joshua. Additionally, it's about what Ali weighed in some of his post-prime 70s performances when he was still plenty fast. (He was 4 pounds heavier when he beat Foster; 1 pound lighter for Norton 1.) Difference being that with modern training, it's 222 pounds of muscle. He's not lugging useless fat around.

If you want to take one of Joshua's heavier performances -- say, for Wladimir Klitschko -- that puts Ali at 230 with the same BMI. That might be a bit heavier, but again, it's well-trained muscle rather than fat.

You might not see much of a decline in speed simply because prime 60s Ali was using subpar training compared to today. The extra bulk might reduce his speed slightly, but modern training methods would do the opposite.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you. I'm just not discussing the hypothetical since it wasn't posed here. Usyk is bigger due to training methods, not natural size. But the weight he's put on is optimal, so he has both more size and more effective size. If you look at Ali and Usyk both at 220, due to training methods available now, Usyk is in way better shape.

 

I certainly agree there. Ali's optimum prime weight using old-timey methods was around 210 at 6'2" or 6'3" (stats vary; I assumed 6'3" since it's more commonly used.) Usyk is bigger.

I just wanted to head off the people who jump in to claim that Ali would belong at LHW or cruiser today because he was tiny. Well, no. He was a big guy with subpar conditioning by modern elite standards.

 

I think he would probably start off at CW, he would just use a slimmer build like he first did in his career. Then he would go up to HW, just like Usyk, who is basically his size. Of course though Povetkin started off at HW so it's possible he just starts there.

 

Either path is possible, yes. Remember Byrd's rapid bulking to heavyweight as well.

I think Ali is a little bigger-framed than Usyk or Haye, although not by much. They might have similar trajectories. I do think Ali makes the jump to HWT sooner, though.

 

Its easy to see differences in Speed when athletes move Up in weight. Just look at the lower weight classes of today. Also Ali was a low guard lean back type of Guy which worked against smaller and slower competition. Just like Vitali Klitschko untill he fought Lewis of a similar Size and Speed. And look at His face then. Ali Would Need to adapt to a completely new style for him and he was No puncher to begin with on top of that. He was suited for 60s small era. Exposed in the 70s and Would struggle in cruiser of today. In modern HW he Would simply be a tag runner nobody want to see at best.

Hughie Fury is an upgraded version of Ali and nobody even cares for him. In My opinion he out Tagged and out Ran Parker but due to ring generalship Parker was earning that fight which is understandable.

Think of David Haye against Klitschko but without the power. Thats your modern Day Ali right there. And I actually prefer such a hypotential version of David Haye over Ali aswell.

And I like Ali for what he managed to do in the golden agebi cant deny that. Its just My honest opinion based on logical conclusions.

 

Haha!

Have a day off.

When have you ever posted anything logical about Ali or the HW division?

This is a clear troll post.

At least I hope that it is.

Hughie Fury is an upgraded version of Ali?

Derek Chisora would have blasted him out in 4 rounds?

Ha!

That’s some good LSD that you’ve taken.

 

What do you think Ali would have done with his feints?

With his circling, where he jumped in and out of range in a flash etc?

Ali had quicker feet than Usyk.

 

All of the Brits on this site will obviously pick AJ. Not because AJ would win , but rather, because AJ is a Brit.
The disturbing truth is that Ali would obliterate AJ. He'd make a fool of him. See AJ vs Ruiz. See AJ vs Usyk.
Would the Brits have the rest of us believe that Ali would lose to either Ruiz or Usyk? It would never happen.
What Usyk did to AJ , Ali would do 10 times worse.

 

He did lose to Joe Frazier, who wouldn't win a single minute of a single round vs Usyk. Come on, get a grip.

 

Frazier, Foreman and Norton would all have slapped Hughie all over the place.