Was Prime Mike Tyson Unbeatable?

Excellent post. Mike was certainly trained for quick destruction and his defensive moves required plenty of fuel, therefore difficult to maintain over longer distances. It was arguably Mike’s optimum approach, garnering stunning successes. Not sure how Mike could’ve modified for better net advantage.

Just to make myself clear. I definitely think Mike was a great fighter - particularly given some distinct dimensional disadvantages - he was that good that it made you forget how much he was often dropping in height and reach to his opposition.

 

It's fair to say Tyson was the sort of guy that benefited from being busier than the norm. Roberto Duran was the same. You had to keep them in the gym on a regular basis and fighting often. Duran mainly because he would let himself balloon up and get miles out of condition and Tyson more so because he was a mental midget and fighting and training often kept him out of trouble and focused. It's no secret he was a very unhinged individual and going off the rails both in boxing and life was in reality unavoidable. Some guys just aren't built to cope and we see it in all walks of life from work to various sports. Tyson wasn't built to have a long successful career where he made the most of his talent no matter how hard people tried IMO. He was simply too unhinged. Ike is another - he barely got started.

His number of fights per year is actually interesting.

1985 - 15
1986 - 13
1987 - 4
1988 - 3
1989 - 2

 

Mercer went the distance with Hoylfield but Tyson was stopped by Hoylfield.

Mercer went the distance with Lewis and Tyson was stopped by Lewis.

Just saying.

Mercer was pretty much a rookie when he fought Holmes. Mercer himself said he's glad he had that fighting because he learned a lot. It taught him to improve his own jab.

Ruddock hit hard, but he was a 1 armed fighter and turned his brain off in the Tyson fight. I saw both fights twice and he inexplicably abandoned his jab despite the fact some boxers in "best I faced" interviews said Ruddock had the best jab. Mercer could both box and slug, and definitely had better endurance than Tyson. I think Tyson would definitely need to take him out by the midway point or he'll have a hard time in the later rounds. Mercer got hit by plenty of powerful combinations from Cooper to the head and body all night. Also took plenty of shots from Lewis which I don't see why you keep glossing over.

 

Tyson was completely shot vs Lewis to be fair, and i'm not trying to sound like one of them Tyson nuthuggers. But in this case i have to be fair on that, and lets not forget Tyson took a pounding vs Lewis before finally succumbing to that right hand, and Holyfield also inflicted more damage on Tyson than he did Mercer, as the fight was more one sided. Just look at the 10th round where Tyson took like dozen unanswered punches but was still standing, and correct if i'm wrong because it has been a long time since i see Holyfield/Mercer, but after Mercer went down vs Holyfield, how bad was Mercer fading ? because i remember Holyfield swept last 3 rounds quite clearly, and it was due to that left hook that Mercer didn't full recover from.

I'm not going to keep quibbling with you on that though, because i would tend to agree with you Mercer probably has the better chin of the two. But what i'm saying is Tyson himself had a very good chin even in his losses he took beatings before he finally got stopped, but i don't think Mercer necessarily having the better chin means he wins this fight. I just think Tyson wins because he's the much more skillful fighter, and he would be landing on Mercer alot more than Mercer would be on him, with vicious combination punching.

I wouldn't really say Mercer was a "rookie" vs Larry Holmes, he had some experience coming through adversity vs Cooper. And had wins over Morrison, Damani, in title fights. I guess i understand what your trying to say. But also take into account Holmes was a big underdog in the fight aswell wasn't he ? but we'll agree to disagree on that.

Also what attributes do you think Mercer has that makes you think he'll beat Tyson ? you think he can stand toe to toe with Tyson ? and hope Tyson starts to wear down and Mercer stops him late ? Tyson in his prime didn't really have stamina issues. And Mercer hasn't really got any noteworthy stoppages over an elite opponent late on, unless you count Damiani which i pointed out earlier, was a bit of freak occurrence with the way the uppercut landed perfectly on the tip of the nose.

The way i see it is that Tyson had a few weaknesses, 1 he could easily be clinched on the inside aka Holyfield, 2 a tall rangy fighter with a good jab could control him at distance aka Douglas, 3 a fighter with good movement could trouble him aka Tillis. I don't see Mercer having any of these qualities, i mean sure he had decent boxing skills, a good chin, and an underrated jab, but IMO not the kind of jab to control Tyson like Douglas did.

I just think overall Mercer is a bit too plodding, not smart enough as a fighter, gets hit way too much, and he doesn't possess the attributes to beat a prime Mike Tyson. But i take into account what you said and you made some good points, but i just don't agree honestly no disrespect intended.

 

Tyson at his best is far too good for Mercer for mine. Different class of fighter. Could peak Mercer beat the Tyson Holyfield and Lewis did? They'd be better match ups.

 

So right, Ha, Ha.

 

At times i wonder if you'd bang Tyson too, or more likely be banged by him

Sorry mate i absolutely positively genuinely couldn't help myself!!!!!

 

Mike’s early and later fighting schedule nicely brought into focus and contrasted there JT.

Awesome old school numbers in the first 2 years then a dramatic tail off with the title in hand with other, obvious “logistics” in play -

Totally agree Mike was best when fighting frequently - not just to keep him tuned up but to prevent him having enough dead time to tune out, LOL.

Lest it be lost in translation due to detailed critique, Mike was a great fighter no doubt.

 

Undefeated 23 year old champion?


Yeah sure he was washed up and punchy lol

 

This is my take. Unique style. Ridiculous power and speed.

I'd add that he has a chance to ko basically any great fighter.

 

He was in is physical prime, but that was not the Mike we'd seen before. One dimensional as hell, thought he'd just have to show up and Douglas would roll over.

 

I’ve been around here for a long time and watching boxing for a long time, too, Magoo.

And this is the first time I have EVER heard of a champion fighting four championship fights in 20 months (I know you don’t like to count them but that’s one fight every five months) or three championship fights in 12 months (yes, less than 365 days is 12 months, and that averages one every four months) being called ‘inactive’ or ‘rusty.’ It’s downright preposterous.

Now you want to say ‘between’ as if the rust sets in the moment the bell rings. But if he fights in February and again in September, you’re talking about a few months off before he’s in camp again. And then he fights in February, which means a couple months off before he’s in camp again. That is not inactivity.

If you fight today and you fight in four months, you’re having two fights in four months. You want to cut off both ends and say that’s no fights, lol. He wasn’t sitting around for a year without fighting, which you well know. He was having a training camp, fighting, taking a month or so off and then back to training camp. That’s called active.

No, as I’ve said numerous times, he wasn’t going to fight every three weeks or even 10 times a year as world champ. That’s not feasible economically (HBO or PPV or paying customers aren’t going to shell out the multi-million dollar paydays every month to make it work) or on his body. It’s not how it works at the championship level.

You can find successful periods of Tyson’s career where he wasn’t fighting frequently:

He fought less than four full rounds in less than five years before winning two world titles in 1996. That’s with prison time and NO real training.

After Douglas, in more than a full year he had less than two full rounds then beat Razor Ruddock twice.

The idea that he had to be fighting every three weeks or two months or whatever frequency you think he needed to be successful is proven false by his own career. It wasn’t inactivity: it was Buster Douglas.

 

I definitely agree with all the above. And seeing such a significant drop in activity in such a short time no doubt had an effect on him. Manny Steward once said of Tyson that he probably wasn’t the type who’s prime would last beyond age 26 or 27. I think this holds particularly true for a man who fought in an era where heavyweights were rapidly getting bigger and bigger with each passing year

 

Haha - you’re a baaad man. That comment was ban-worthy. McGraaaaaiiiin! Some of us are Teflon coated it seems. When I came back from my own week long exile I was clearly not the same man I used to be. Ali and I are kindred souls.

I remember Miss Givens from the series Head of the Class - make what you will of the show’s title.

 

I’m too tired to read all this. Have it your way. You’re right.