the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Lennox Lewis vs Ray Mercer

1 Mercer
2 Lewis
3 Mercer
4 Lewis
5 Mercer
6 Mercer
7 Lewis
8 Lewis
9 Mercer
10 Lewis

95-95 Draw

Me and Harold Lederman had the exact same score but we scored rounds differently. That tells you that there was a few debatable in this fight. The only round that left me scratching my head the 4th round which Lederman scored for Mercer ? it was a very good action packed round, but i thought Lewis won that round pretty clearly so i was surprised Lederman had that round for Mercer.

But what's funny about this fight is that it's the exact opposite of what you'd expect. You would expect Lewis to be having success with the jab, and Mercer would have to pull it out with power punches. But actually it was the other way around, Mercer was very accurate with his jab and outjabbed Lewis, where as Lewis had to pull it out with power punches down the stretch especially the uppercut which was always an eye catching punch for him.

Overall this fight was razor thin close and i think 6-4 either way or a draw would of been fair result, would of been nice had it been 12 rounds or seeing a rematch.

 

Jose Luis Ramirez (c) vs. Pernell Whitaker, scheduled for 12 rounds for the WBC lightweight championship at Stade de Levallos, Levallos-Perret, Hautz-de-Sienna, France. (That’s a mouthful.)

This is Ramirez’s second defense of the vacant title he won from Terrence Alli. He has won 11 in a row. He weighs 135 and is 100-6.

Whitaker is 134 1/4 and comes in 15-0.

Battle of southpaws.

1. Whitaker 10-9: Some good body work.

2. Whitaker 10-9: Works his jab effectively and is just too slick, a ghost JLR cannot find in the dark.

3. Ramirez 10-9: More pressure, bigger shots, better jab.

4. Whitaker 10-9: Close. A yawner.

5. Ramirez 10-9: More clean shots from the champ and some good body work. He’s closing the distance and Pernell is more and more on his bicycle and punching less and less.

6. Ramirez 10-9: Effectively aggressive against an opponent who doesn’t look like he wants to fight.

7. Ramirez 10-9: Same, with JRL landing a few snappy, long lefts.

8. Ramirez 10-9: Same pattern but now Whitaker is turning his back and walking away.

9. Whitaker 10-9: Close. A few combos edge it.

10. Whitaker 10-9: Same thing, again close.

11. Ramirez 10-9: He worked three minutes. The other guy fought in spurts and his work wasn’t impressive enough to overcome the lesser workrate.

12. Even, 10-10: Whitaker planted his feet and landed a few nice combos, but he also ran and clinched, ran and clinched, and Ramirez gritted it out and kept punching. Depends on what you like.

My card: 115-114 Ramirez.

Official cards: 118-113 Ramirez, 116-115 Ramirez, 113-112 Whitaker.

Flip around the close rounds and my card could be wider for Ramirez, but you could also give Whitaker the even round at the end.

Pernell did a lot of things that probably didn’t win him favor with the judges. It’s hard to give a guy rounds when he turns his back and walks away repeatedly, when he does circles around the ring flicking a couple of non-punches and then ties up his opponent, when he grabs JLR around the lower legs at one point and does that ducking below the waist — mostly without bothering to throw a punch.

The thing that’s hard to determine is how effective Whitaker’s jab was. I don’t think it was for the most part — there were a few nice spears here and there, but a lot of them go over JLR’s shoulder or head or are parried. I think Ramirez in a lot of stretches was the better defensive fighter (just not as slick about it, but good hand placement, parrying, slipping and blocking). Sometimes when Sweet Pea actually does throw a three- or four-punch combination (rare) he misses every one of them.

So there you have it. I know a lot of people believe Whitaker won and I can believe that if you have it close, but in no way did he run away with this fight or come close to pitching a shutout. He mostly let it get away. Even if you don’t agree with the judges, I think if you watch it you can see how they got there just off Sweet Pea’s inactivity.

 

Pat, I watched and scored this a few months back. I'm on the same page as you. This is what I wrote:

Jose Luis Ramirez v Pernell Whitaker I

Round 1: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 2: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 5: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 6: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 7: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 8: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 11: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 12: 10-9 Whitaker

Total: 115-115 Draw (actual scores: 118-113 and 116-115 both for Ramirez and a 117-113 for Whitaker for a split win for Ramirez)

The first time I saw this live I didn't put pen to paper but thought half-heartedly, 'Yeah, Whitaker is probably going to get this but he doesn't deserve it.' I was amazed he didn't get the verdict but that was due to all the media hype on Whitaker, not for what went on in the ring. At the time, I just didn't feel like he won and that was down to the way the fight unfolded. Anyways, to clarify after watching this again, Whitaker boxed nicely early but by the time the middle of the fight came along he was quite literally running (I counted 5 times he actually turned his back and ran). This was not ring generalship. This was running and chasing. Now if he was at least firing while running I could make more of a case for him but Ramirez did far better on the chase than the announcing team gave him credit for. In fact, they gave him credit for nothing. I watched the telecast with Don Chevier (spelling) and Angelo Dundee. And you could not have found two bigger Pernell Whitaker cheerleaders than these two. Never once did I hear 'Good left hook by Ramirez' or 'Great pressure'. Nothing. However, they would acknowledge at the end of a round where they were lauding Whitaker's efforts, 'Ramirez likely took that round'. I was thinking, 'Really? You never said a thing what he did well.' I almost laughed out loud when one of them talked about Whitaker's 'wincing body shots'. Anyways, I felt Whitaker came off his bike somewhat those last two rounds to fight out of the pocket and took those rounds on my card. But I gotta say, zone out on the announcers and watch this for what actually occurs in the ring. I just don't see it as the robbery it is made out to be. One other thing, I never saw Whitaker fight this kind of running fight again, so he definitely learned from this and made him a better fighter.

 

Interesting. The version I saw had Barry Tompkins and Ray Mancini on the call and they are talking through much of it like Pernell’s ahead (kept saying he won the first four rounds) and shift gears a bit midway through to acknowledge that JLR is doing some good work but then are back on Sweet Pea’s bandwagon and saying Ramirez is doing something but not enough and call it a robbery.

You and I are not 100% aligned on our rounds but we definitely saw the same fight.

 

You scored it a draw like I did. And I agree with you about the 4th…seemed a clear win for Lewis to me too

 

Pernell Whitaker vs Jose Luis Ramirez 1

1 Whitaker
2 Whitaker
3 Ramirez
4 Whitaker
5 Whitaker
6 Ramirez
7 Ramirez
8 Ramirez
9 Whitaker
10 Whitaker
11 Whitaker
12 Whitaker

116-112 Whitaker

I respect your knowledge @Saintpat @scartissue But i have to say gentleman i totally disagree with your scorecards on this one. Whitaker clearly outboxed Ramirez early on, to Ramirez's credit he had a good spell in the middle rounds. As Whitaker went a bit negative not throwing anything apart from the jab, Ramirez was able to get to Whitaker's body and land a few solid left hands to win the middle rounds. I thought the fight was close after 8 rounds. But Whitaker picked it up in the last 4 rounds, started throwing and landing combinations. And Ramirez was ineffective and didn't really land anything of note in the last 4 rounds, as Whitaker won those rounds by out punching and landing combinations on Ramirez.

And @Saintpat you made a comment about you can see how the judges got there, well sorry i don't see how one judge could possibly come up with 118-113 for Ramirez that is scandalous.

Overall i will agree this fight wasn't a blow out and Ramirez had some good moments, but for me Whitaker clearly deserved the win for the way he started the fight and the way he finished the fight. Ramirez did really nothing of note in rounds 1, 2, 4, 9, 10, 11, 12. And whilst i agree Whitaker was negative at times especially in the middle rounds, he made up for that in the later rounds by at times sitting down on his punches and landing combinations.

 

Archie Moore KO3 Yvon Durelle

The rematch of their memorable first encounter. Though it ended far earlier than the first fight, it was an exciting slugfest for as long as it went.

Moore took the majority of the first round to measure and feel out the situation, letting Durelle carry much of the load. Durelle looked strong and his shots carried a lot of steam, but Moore's cross-arm defense picked off most of the Canadian's wide rights and hooks. He was clearly cognizant of what happened the first time, and didn't want to open up without first considering things.

His consideration period lasted until the second round. Durelle left himself open for Moore's sharp, short counters and by the end of the round the champion had his man covering up along the ropes, an unfamiliar posture for the challenger.

The end came in the third, with Moore taking the teak-tough Canadian apart much the way a lumberjack takes down a huge oak, chopping blow by chopping blow. Referee Jack Sharkey could really have waved this one off after the second knockdown, but Durelle obliged Moore a third time, and he was counted out.

All in all, a fun one while in lasted.

1. Even
2. Moore
3. Moore floors Durelle three times, the final time for the count

 

Should have clarified — didn’t mean to say I can see how the one judge got to that particular score but I can see how they got to a win for Ramirez (obviously since I had him winning).

You mention JLR not doing much in some rounds, I’ll counter with Sweet Pea not doing much in a lot of rounds. And even in some rounds you gave him, I went with Ramirez because what Pernell did came in spurts and some of that just wasn’t effective or Ramirez countered/answered.

It’s a tough fight to score and definitely a ‘what do you like’ kind of fight for a judge. Whitaker completely turning his back to walk away can leave a bad impression (did for me) and some judges aren’t very forgiving of a guy who doesn’t look like he wants to fight.

For sure I think we can all agree on this: not one of Whitaker’s better performances. He’s not a mature fighter at this point and didn’t hang in the pocket to punch while using his defensive abilities the way he does later in his career.

 

One thing I will say that in a way, losing this fight was probably the best thing that could of happened to him.
It made Whitaker a better fighter, and he clearly wasn't ready for Chavez at that point his career. I believe he was going to fight Chavez if he beat Ramirez ?

 

Ray Mercer vs Bert Cooper

1 Mercer 10-8 knockdown
2 Cooper
3 Mercer
4 Mercer
5 Mercer
6 Cooper
7 Mercer
8 Mercer
9 Cooper
10 Mercer
11 Mercer
12 Mercer

117-111 Mercer

A good old fashioned Heavyweight slugfest, Mercer's jaw i believe was broken in the 1st round from a Cooper uppercut, and by the end it looked grotesque. Cooper was down in the 1st round aswell from a great right hand from Mercer, and was rocked a few other times later on in the fight, but Cooper seemed to take the punches better once he warmed up.

Despite my wide scorecard Cooper was very much in this fight the entire way, the problem was Mercer would walk him down and smother Cooper's work. I also think this was a ploy from Mercer to protect his broken jaw which was smart, as Cooper would only throw his bombs when he room to punch. But in most of the close rounds Mercer would edge them with a big flurry of punches, and just outhustle Cooper in a majority of the rounds.

Overall an exciting fight to watch and alot of heart shown from both fighters.

 

Bob Foster vs Jorge Ahumada

5 Ahumada
6 Ahumada
7 Ahumada
8 Ahumada
9 Even
10 Foster 10-8 point deduction for Ahumada
11 Foster
12 Foster
13 Foster
14 Ahumada
15 Foster

Howard Cossell said the 3 judges had Foster ahead by 1 point after 4 rounds, and he thought the scoring was fair. So for arguments sake lets say Foster had a slight edge after 4 rounds, if that is indeed the case then i think Foster just about did enough in the later rounds to pull it out.

A few things i want to say about this fight, Foster's legendary power was never able to hurt or rock Ahumada once. Despite Ahumada being pretty banged up at the end of the fight with cut, bleeding nose, lump on his head. Ahumada was known for his toughness and it was evident here.

Ahumada in rounds 4-8 was able to hit Foster at will with the left hook. It seemed like anytime Ahumada threw the left hook he landed it, and those rounds were pretty clear rounds for Ahumada, after that that though i felt Foster was able to keep Ahumada mostly on the end of his stick/left jab. And was able to mostly control the distance and land occasional right hand and uppercut.

Overall it was a pretty entertaining fight, Foster starting to come towards the end of his career. Was able to show some guts and salvage a draw against a very tough challenger, i personally think Foster may of edged it but without seeing the first 4 rounds i can't really make an opinion. But i would say it was a very close fight and the draw looked reasonable to me.

 

D, finally getting around to this one. Haven't seen it since '77 and now I remember why. The announcing team did try. Some hyperbole thrown out there like, "What a war!" But it wasn't. It was like you said. A close tactical affair. BTW, you may have to reassess your score. There was only one point deducted in the 13th.

Victor Galindez v Eddie Gregory (light heavyweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Gregory
Round 2: 10-9 Galindez
Round 3: 10-9 Galindez
Round 4: 10-9 Galindez
Round 5: 10-8 Galindez (scores a knockdown)
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Gregory
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Galindez
Round 10: 10-9 Gregory
Round 11: 10-9 Gregory
Round 12: 10-10 Even
Round 13: 10-8 Galindez (Gregory deducted 1 point for a low blow)
Round 14: 10-9 Gregory
Round 15: 10-9 Galindez

Total: 145-141 Galindez (actual scores: 147-145, 148-147 and 147-146 all for Galindez)

This fight was a real study on the reputation of Eddie Gregory (soon to become Eddie Mustafa Muhammad). He was known as a lazy fighter and he demonstrated it superbly. Man, he would nail Galindez with a beautiful combination but would then fall into a clinch rather than follow it with another combo. His jab was pretty but he had to put something with it and he just held back. Of course, this is all just my opinion, but he was frustrating to watch. BTW, I did feel that point deduction in the 13th was BS. Galindez had just nailed him low, so, so what if there was a little retaliation. I feel one right back in the nads is fair play. But Galindez is one guy that will mug you if you let him. And I think Eddie did just that.

 

Are you sure about point deduction ? I was pretty sure referee took 2 points away.

 

Buster Drayton KO7 Mark Kaylor

I remember seeing the ending flurry to this fight as a precursor to NBC's airing of the Bonecrusher-Bruno fight back in '84 and remember thinking what a bad day British boxing had just endured. I missed this fight, or it wasn't aired in my timezone or something.

I have seen Kaylor's domestic squabble with Errol Christie and knew he was an aggressive boxer-puncher with good tools if a bit easy to hit. He stuck true to form this time too.

Drayton proved remarkably awkward. He wasn't terribly hard to hit but he winged big punches out of strange stances without a jab precursor, perhaps accentuating the difficulty Kaylor had picking up those shots. Kaylor seemed huge compared to the smaller American.

Kaylor was busier and better early, with a hard jab and alternating attack to head and body. He was successful in keeping Drayton off him and piling up points, though he had to absorb the odd flush haymaker now and again.

In the third, Drayton hurt Kaylor late in the round and what should have been a knockdown was ignored by the oddly horrible referee. Kaylor quickly righted the ship in the fourth though and swept four, five and six, seemingly totally recovered.

In the seventh, Drayton crushed Kaylor with another overhand right and Kaylor toppled over backwards. He climbed to his feet only to have two more knockdowns waved off by who can only be Kaylor's uncle. Finally, the ending right hand sent Kaylor crashing down and out. Big upset.

1. Kaylor
2. Kaylor
3. Drayton (10-9, Kaylor taking it until final-moment sorta knockdown)
4. Kaylor
5. Kaylor
6. Kaylor
7. Drayton floors Kaylor 48 times and finally out.

 

I think what may have caused the confusion was the referee waving his index finger and middle finger at Gregory and the judges, which actually looked like '2'. But I read comprehensive reports on the fight and everything said one point was deducted.