Having a deal of pain in fights says you had trouble overcoming your opponent,not having it isn't a minus,it's a plus!
"character beats raw talent" - Cus D' Amato Tyson was physical raw talent, the guys that trained him had character (Cus, Teddy, Kevin), Marciano definitely had more character, so Marciano is capable of rising up and defeating Tyson the heavier the bag is and the more the punch moves it/gets it swinging the more power the punch has, Marciano got it moving, someone without as much power wouldn't get it moving as much is what it means, the idea is you start out not being able to move it much and maybe work on lower weight bags and then you move up in weight as you build strength and power 38 same age as the Holmes Tyson beat, Foreman was 42 and Holyfield still couldn't knock him down This content is protected
To the gentleman who questioned my starting this thread I offer some of the responses as evidence that there are boxing fans who do n "Honest effort and sterling character backed by solid instruction will carry a man a good way, but unearned natural ability has a lot to be said for it."
Ring Magazine: "Nobody ever got as much out of what he had than Rocky Marciano. No one ever came into a fight in better shape than Rocky did. He could punch like hell...and he could take a punch! Marciano was relentless...and he had a will of iron!" He could take a punch better than all of them. Tyson was ranked #9 on the list by the historians...because he had a bit of "the QUIT" in him That's why he came up near the bottom of the list. The article also said about fighters like Marciano...Ali....Frazier...Holyfield..."You could shoot them...and they still wouldn't quit!....(unlike "Iron Mike). He could beat up a beauty pageant contestant...but he doesn't beat Marciano. Rocky beats Tyson on heart alone!!!
Fair enough. But Rocky getting on the inside without sustaining major damage is a HUGE "what if". Tyson will be bombing him continously and making him pay for each step. And even if Rocky manages to get inside it is not sure he can put a dent due to Tyson's great counterpunching and defensive skills. If Rocky survives more than six rounds; he has a chance, but that is not going to be easy. Can Rocky endure enough rounds until the tide starts chamging? I highly doubt it. Not impossible, but I doubt it.
And Moore was 39/41 Louis37. Berbick was32 Thomas 31 Tucker 29 Biggs 26 Bruno27 Williams 30 Ruddock 28 Seldon27 Tubbs 30 Spinks 31 Want to try for some more?
In the run up to the Rumble In The Jungle Bundini Brown went to watch George Foreman train. He told Ali George hit so hard he dented the bag. Ali asked him if the bag moves.
Marciano never took the punch of a modern sized class heavy who was anywhere near prime and he was dropped by a192lb 38years old man ,and a 39/41years old 188lbs man His chin is untested against modern sized heavyweights of any class. Heart can give you a good ride, but it cannot make up for physical deficiencies all things being equal.
There has to be some rhyme or reason for bags that are uber heavy - though Marciano’s seriously oversized might’ve been for hype in part. One obvious feature would be they don’t move away so much, so you can practice really digging in your shots. - good drill for body punching, the body not as evasive as the head. Heavier bags perhaps also good for wrist/hand strength. I always like to know the bag weight just to judge a fighter’s power. Visually , all things considered, Foreman is still King on the heavy bag IMO though Louis’ had a far more aesthetic concentration of power with his shots into the bag. Sort of like the ungodly force of a tornado that can drive straw through a piece of wood - though Louis had a good sized human fist to transmit the end point power. Personally, I have Tokyo Douglas beating Mike in a rematch. Sure, Mike might come in that bit sharper but then Buster has the confidence of the blue print, he’s also wiser and some improvement even on his part wouldn’t have been impossible. I think Tokyo Douglas would’ve beaten Evander also. A far greater case as to Buster being well out of shape/poorly prepared mentally than Tokyo Mike. Still, Buster vs Evander was what it was, reasonably accepted and certainly hasn’t been excused with the woulda, shoulda, couldas all too often afforded to Mike.
So because Tyson blasted out the best the division had to offer and didn't struggle with geriatrics it should be held against him? Do you know how stupid (even by your standards) you sound right now? I agree. 100%. He's still not seeing the 3rd round (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he survives the first round because he was one tough *******)
Tougher is very debatable. Rocky is more confident, Tyson has openly expressed being both supremely confident and supremely afraid of all of his opponents at the same time. Stamina I can say that I believe all the old timers have better stamina, but when you get starched in 4 rounds it doesn't matter.
