Ali's "Gift Decisions" Revisited

Well the Quarry fight only lasted about 6 minutes so that's hardly enough time to shake off the ring rust.

As for Bonavena, it was a longer fight yes but it was also 44 minutes which while longer than than Quarry fight, is not enough to shave off four years of inactivity.

Even in that bout people noticed Ali's decline

"Artistically, Muhammad's showing against Bonavena was greeted with mixed emotions. Most boxing people thought it proved that Ali has slowed down and that he will be a sitting duck for Frazier's relentless hooks."

Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/98677564/daily-news/

 

The Ali in FOTC has not been given enough credit as a still great fighter. I can think of no one that could have endured the punishment, pace and constant attacks of Joe Frazier that night and go 15 rounds. Maybe only a Foreman or a Liston could have quenched Joe's attacks. Plus the punishment that Ali laid on Frazier was immense, a career altering fight. Joe was never the same . This version of Ali I believe was a stronger man than the 67 version. Plus he had experience plus, Honestly though I'd take this Frazier over any version of Ali ,even the 67 Ali who might try to run more but Joe will still be all over him and he can't hide.

 

He may have been stronger but the more "experience" he had was all of 48 minutes which is easily negated by three years of inactivity.

 

Don’t see him beating a prime Holmes or a Prime Liston- that is in peak shape and not taking a dive.

 

Yep. And let's not forget that Ali was older and further past his prime for all the three fights, but still went 2-1 against Joe. This really shouldn't be a debate.

 

He was the same weight he was for Chuvalo in 1966 but with less muscle tone, so doubtful if he was stronger. Those years away didn't help his strength any more than it helped his speed and stamina.

And the 60's Ali was strong enough for Liston and Chuvalo so I don't see why anyone would think he wouldn't be for Frazier.

Also if strength is so all important, but why didn't it benefit Frazier in the second and third fights, when he was bigger in the first? The speedster gets better with a bit of extra weight, but the swarmer does not?

The whole thing just doesn't hold water.

 

Sparring is vastly different than actual fights. Let's not pretend you don't know this.

In any case, Ali was said to have neglected sparring and training up to TFOTC. His wife caught him having an affair with a woman and was more angry that he wasn't taking his upcoming fight seriously than she was at him cheating on her.

 

I'm the biggest Liston fan here, but no Liston beats Ali. Not the Liston of the William bout, the Machen bout, the Patterson bouts, etc.

Neither would Holmes imo. He struggled with much inferior competition that he should've wiped the floor with.

 

Also a stamina issue. Ali did well in the first four rounds in FOTC even though he got tagged at times, but he was running out of steam in the 5th, 6th. If he could have kept up what he was doing in the first four, five for another couple of rounds Frazier might have started to struggle eventually.

 

Ali beats Norton by around 9 - 6 in rounds. ~
Ali clearly outboxes Young but probably goes 15 rounds.
Ali outboxes and stops Shavers.

 

Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Fury, Usyk - they all beat him. I'd also give a slight edge to the Klitschkos and Holmes over him.
Peak or not, Ali still was mistake prone.

 

I do. At the end of the day I see Ali as one of the most intelligent heavyweights to have ever laced them up, if Ali has his athleticism and is without ring-rust, I see him as more than capable of breaking down a prime holmes and liston through his ring iq. If you were to swap Liston in his first fight with Ali for a prime Liston or even prime Holmes, and Ali had done his homework on his opponent all the same. Needless to say I think Ali wins.