Ali from the Foreman fight vs the best version of Holyfield

Holyfield ain't beating that version of Ali, Holyfield edged out a 42 year old Foreman , not the monster that Ali slayed.

 

Especially considering Ali himself liked to fight his heart out in a corner. When it come down to it he loved letting his hands go, one of his best attributes really. Evander might rough Ali up down the road and I believe SD him. It’d be a clutch.

 

Ali was faster than Holyfield even in 1974. Not saying Evander wasn't quick but not on Ali level. His biggest hurdle though would be Ali's jab. Holyfield had trouble with guys that had good jabs. Evander doesn't have the defense of a Norton or the bobbing and weaving of a Frazier to be able to close distance. Holyfield would be stuck in no man's land far too often. At the end of Ali's punches.
This is a good fight though. Ali is probably going to win a few rounds in good style, then he would have to rest a round or two before finishing the bout in control.

 

I'm not entirely sure Ali could have won this. The Holy that lost to Bowe I was a h2h monster, I don't think even prime Lewis could have beat him. It was Bowe's one truly Great moment, and he had to bust his ass to win that decision.

I can't commit to a pick, very tough. Even prime Holmes, Louis, and Tyson would have had trouble with that Holy, though I think they probably would have come out on top.

I see Ali having trouble finding range for the jab, a definite point against him. Holy's darting style would give him trouble, as the former would be going under the jab a lot.

If Ali can start finding Holy with the lead right and sitting into it, he has a chance of winning big. But I'm not sure Holy would give him much opportunity...

 

Whilst that Holy was great, prime Lewis was better than Bowe and Holy fought an undisciplined fight. Too happy to trade and abandon his great jab, trying to earn Bowe's respect.

His footwork and completeness is Ali's biggest problem and he will slip Ali's jab, but he will catch the jab.

It is a really close fight but I think Ali's speed, ring generalship and higher ring IQ getting him over the line.

 

Not entirely sure on whether prime Lewis was better than that ONE NIGHT Bowe beat Holy the first time (Lennox sure did get hit a lot less!).

Lennox was certainly a significantly greater ATG than Bowe, positive on that.

I do agree that Holy's style would be very different to Ali, the former's idiosyncratic footwork would at least temporarily befoozle the latter.

 

I really don’t think he was faster than a prime Holyfield at that point. Ali still had good speed, but he was against a much slower and hittable opponent. Even then he couldn’t establish the jab that well in the fight. Ali won in good fashion, but I really don’t think he had enough at that point to deal with a fresh Holyfield.

 

Bowe was great on that night - partly because of his good chin and great skillset, but a lot of it, if I'm nitpicking, because Holyfield was that much smaller and played into his hands. When Evan was doubling and tripling the jab, Bowe was caught with relative ease. When Mr Fields abandons jab and footwork cos Bowe starts roughing him and he wants to punch respect back into the fight, it makes Bowe look better than what he was.

Lennox, with Manny in the corner, is even more dominant in my book. Uses his height better, whilst not having Bowe's inside game, throws a vicious uppercut, uses his size and always found a way against a smaller fighter than came to him when focused.

I don't think it's necessarily the footwork that catches Holy out from Ali - it's the distance negotiation and headmovement, corkscrew jab and right hand hand counter and lead that upsets Evan's timing. Evan fought in a nice bouncy rhythm, but then adjusted by going warrior. I think Kinshasa Ali is wily enough to make Evan impatient and lose his rhythm, telegraph his punches and get beaten to the punch.

 

Great post. I agree to slightly disagree on the Bowe of the 1st Holy fight, I think the former was an h2h Giant just for that one night. Only ridiculously huge punchers like Foreman, Louis, and Liston (and yes, quite possibly prime Lennox) and super boxers like 60s Ali and 1978-'81 Holmes could have beaten that guy imo. But that's just me.

I don't think Holy could stand up to Ali's right hand (especially full power) for a whole night, as I consider Ali's Zaire right the most powerful of his career. If Holy decides to go full warrior, Ali might get shaken by that hook, but he'll get the better with the introduction of the aforementioned right. I don't see Holy doing to well absorbing that shot consistently.

So I'm leaning a bit more toward the Zaire Ali at this point.

I'm an admirer of Lewis, so your points concerning him are very much appreciated.

 

I honestly don’t think Holmes would’ve struggled very much at all with Holyfield prime for prime.

 

You don't think the Holy of Bowe 2 was better? 217 lbs of ripped muscle but still mobile with a good gas tank.

 

The jab would be the key. Holy was very good when moving in and out and doubling that jab, but Ali still had a very sharp jab at that point.

When looking at Holy-Holmes it's hard not to think that a '74 Ali was not very dissimilar to that Holmes but better in most departements, but the reality isn't always that straight forward and Evander had a tendency to fight to the level of his opposition.

Lovely fight, but can't call it.

 

Holyfield had alot of problems landing on Holmes, when he did his version of Ali's rope a dope at 42 years old something to consider.

 

Riddick Bowe and Buster Douglas for me get a bit overrated, for one performance in H2H mythical match ups. Evander Holyfield fought a terrible gameplan standing toe to toe with a much bigger man and lost.

Yes it was a good performance from Bowe, and he deserves credit for the win. But still i would still favour quite a few boxers even against that version of Bowe. For me Bowe's lack of defence and his outside game was vulnerable and got exploited by Tubbs, Holyfield 2, Biggs, Golota x2. I don't see why better boxers or bigger punchers couldn't exploit that aswell.

 

I tend to agree and let's not forget ... If not for Fan Man and Bowe likely being extremely concerned about his wife, Evan doesn't win the second fight.