[Deleted by user.]

I think big guys became better athletes only because of the advances in nutrition, science, training and more readily available information that made it possible for more big men to function as fighters.

Regardless of a larger population, you take away the advances, science, more readily available information from boxing today and you are left with boxing as it was in Jack Dempseys time.

Suppose you put more people living in Jack Dempseys time. Without those advances. Jack Dempsey would still be the world champion in Jack Dempseys time even if you flooded boxing with more people the size of Jess Willard. Because none of that stuff had came in yet.

your not going to get bigger athletes on their own.

Jess Willard looked like Jess Willard because he didn’t have the advances in nutrition, science, training and more readily available information that made it possible for more big men to function as fighters. That stuff came later.

I mean that seems more logical to me anyway.

 

Yes, I think an extra division above 200 is a future need and I very much an old time kind of guy. Say 215-230 is the division in between. There have been lots beat fights between men of 200-215. These giants with a good jab and long reaches pretty much shut the smaller man. Heavyweights from 60+ years out when they are skilled. When you are that tall end long and know how to use it, boxing can turn into a game of it and don't get hit. Sure you can close the gap between clinches but we are talking about 30 seconds or so of swarming a round and there is often a price to pay when closing the gap. Sorry fans, it is what it is.

 

Usyk is very close to Ali in dimensions.

 

Yes, he is.

 

No. Boxing needs to change the names of its weight classes to fit Amateur boxing.

 

That is largely correct. Although I would add PEDs (although I hate that cheating & lying + disrespect to the body), & having a dramatically larger population than in the old daaaze, of any size, would make it more likely someone could beat Dempsey.
I only said more guys are bigger, I never implied there was a genetic difference.
Sure if you remove all the causes of more big guys or better athletes, that will be minimized.

I agree that training, nutrition, drugs, & rule changes make it much better for, & more likely for very large men to prosper.

 

Trouble is you hear “when was the last time a Marciano sized HW was champ” in an era that forbids fighting at HW under 201lbs…

 

Sure but it is very rare to have anyone champ or near the best within 10 lbs. of that.
Who has been there?
Wilder strayed the closest, down to 212.5 like a prime Ali, but he has epic power, mucho length & speed.
And that was his lightest.

Do you believe a Marciano sized HW, even just in weight, in the 180's, or even someone in the 190's is likely to be a HW champion if the rules permitted the competition?
It seems very unlikely to me.
Now if you had smaller gloves, did not permit much clinching, 15 round fights...
It would still be unlikely, but less so.

Under that rule set, would a Dempsey or a Marciano be likely to be a champ-reconstituted as they were, as basically rehydrated LHWs?
It is possible, more so with a few different belts, but it would be a hard ask...

 

These are really interesting questions. I think the advent of advances finally making it possible for bigger men to function as athletes in combat sports makes it unlikely that anyone Marcianos or Jack Dempseys day would ever need to be any bigger.

looking at it the other way around is kind of redundant.

The help big guys now get was not there.

I agree. Joe Louis is the best candidate to do just as well.

Without the advances in nutrition, science and more readily available information Dempsey and Marciano really could operate just as they were against everyone.

men that size would still be ruling the highest division.

But with those advances, giant guys can be better athletes in combat sports. So nobody really should be attempting it, including Dempsey and Marciano as they were. Why should they? Who else is?

Did Holyfield?

Those sized guys had a hundred years to dominate before science made new things possible.

Those guys did it on their own. They proved it.

 

Usyk is still pretty big tho. 6 ft 3 220 pounds that is bigger that most of the heavyweights before the 90's

 

This is false. It is not forbidden. They choose not to.

 

Honestly I feel that besides the top 4-5 guys, today's HW division sucks balls and is as soft as pudding.

Usyk
Fury
Joshua
Wilder

are all good enough to hold their own in whatever era. Otherwise I'm unimpressed.

 

When was the last time anyone heard of any fighter under 200 lbs fighting at heavyweight?
I mean Top 100 heavyweights, not garage fights.

 

Herbie Hide was probably the last one. But since then we had little guys like Bryd and Jones pufffing themselves up.

Guys like Holyfield and Moorer never could have got so big without modern science.

Andy Ruiz. What would he weigh in another era? Heck, what would he weigh if he were in shape now ?

 

Well done.
I completely forgot about RJJ, even though it's been almost 20 years since then.
I repeat, well done.