I actually think that Vitally Klitschko was very unlucky. He got retired due to injury in 2004, at the worst possible point of his career, when we must now conclude that the division was at his mercy. If he had been active over this period, then he might have rounded up the belts before Wlad, and we might remember Wlad as a belt holder.
While I agree Davilla was unlucky in his career, and also unlucky to come up against Gomez, Zarate, Pintor & Lora, I do think he'd miss out on being the divisional number one in most eras. In fact, just off the top of my head I don't think I could name one era where he would be the true, universal number one. So he reminds me a little of Jerry Quarry in the sense that the old "any other era" cliche gets stuck too, but I don't think it's the case with Davilla.
Matt Korobov: 1. He was beating Andy Lee in his only title shot, but Lee caught him and knocked him out. 2. Zero fights in 2015 and 17. Garbage fights in 2016. Prime years trashed over poor promotion 3. He fought Jernall Charlo in 2018 as a late substitution, but lost closely due to fading late. He may have had better conditioning if he prepared to fight Charlo instead of a short rounds tune-up. 4. Got another high profile fight, this time against Eubank Jr., but he hurt his shoulder and had to stop in a fight he was doing well in. 5. Got one last fight, this time against Ronald Ellis, but had to quit with an ankle injury in a fight he was doing well in. Ellis got awarded a fight with Benavidez afterward. Last I heard, he was driving trucks.
Would be an interesting thread to speculate about what an uninjured Vitali could have done. You're right that there really just aren't many people who could beat him. You're talking Rahman, Ruiz, Brewster/Liahkovich/Briggs, and Wlad probably grabs Byrd's IBF.
Not to oversimplify but it will always come down to how you see each and every one of the three fights. Not sure how much Ali had faded from FOTC to the second Norton fight. Ali was ill prepared, complacent and overweight for the first Norton fight for sure. But just as surely (at least imo), although a close fight, Norton beat Ali clearly in fight 1 and the SD belied Norton’s margin of victory. I don’t believe there was any controversy over Norton being awarded the fight - but I get the feel there would’ve been an outcry if Ali got the nod. Just 6 months later, a super serious Ali comes in 9 lbs less than the first fight (221 vs 212), looking in the best shape since his comeback. One might’ve concluded at the time that Ali not only pulls up the slack of the first fight but beats Norton by a clear margin. Not so, it’s life and death and could’ve gone either way. By ‘76, Ali is that much less of himself - but then Norton beat that version in due proportion - maybe 10-5. Some have gone as far as 11-4. So maybe, instead of being later called a paper Champ, some of us might say Ken proved himself a real Champ at Yankee Stadium, only to be beaten on paper. So, at least for me, Norton beat Ali clearly enough in fights 1 and 3, not of case of Norton not being able to definitively get over the top of Ali in any of the 3 fights. Young was not only a difficult customer, he had his own clear wins over the likes of Lyle, Foreman etc. However, his fight vs Norton was very close, so really, rather than signature Ken negatively for that, it really should be of a great credit to him - I thought Norton won that too, btw. While focusing on Ali’s own fade, there’s the fact that Norton himself was getting on (Young’s senior by 5 years). Kind of a rinse repeat treatment for Ken vs Larry. Norton older again and he was fighting a future ATG and gave him hell. - Among a rich field of talent, close fights can be expected - even for the ATGs who themselves could be said to be a bit lucky for the decisions in close fights that fell in their favour. Sorry, just my opinions and not trying to shove them down the throat. I know @swagdelfadeel would and has disagreed with me on several related points - which is great - and he makes his own very good points in counter. I must remember to ask Swag how he came to his moniker - unless its meaning has gone over my head, which is highly possible. Something to do with daffodils maybe? LOL. @Boxed Ears ? A highly knowledgeable and sagacious poster like yourself CT, seriously. Left of field sometimes? Yes, but controlled madness is good. Did you know his grandmother used to do PCP, Angel Dust? I’m not spreading false rumours here , it came from the mouth (or literally, finger tips) of the great man himself. @JohnThomas1 himself ran into the naked grandmother at a 7-11, an experience traumatic enough to see John kick his own addiction and remain clean ever since - so some good came out of it. Oh Lordy, I did waffle a bit there, didn’t I? Still, a questionnaire will be issued shortly to make sure attention was paid to my each and every point.
I guess it is true that things begin to sag when you get older so I guess that is true. But there's no need to point this out for everyone. I am getting older and more sagacious. I am not ashamed...but I am also not proud of this. I do not want it front and centre of any conversation.
Oh Dude, you’re a scream. Very good. You’re a word smith - I’ll tentatively replace sag-acious with astucious but I feel that word is also fair game and more than malleable in your skilled hands.
Jimmy Young seems to have had more than his share of hard luck. A very slick boxer, the decisions in his fights with Ali and Norton could arguably have gone to him. After the Norton loss, he seemed to fall apart, losing back to back decisions to Ossie Ocasio and never again regaining top contender status.
I suppose even in that scenario Wlad outlasts him, and potentially makes some sort of a legacy after he retires. Even so, I think that Vitally would be seen as the greater of the two brothers by consensus in this timeline.
Bump Most recently it's been Sergiy Derevyanchenko where you can make an argument that most of his losses could have gone his way or at least a draw.
