"The idea that me criticising Kownacki who Wilder hasn't even fought somehow diminishes Wilder is ludicrous." You've said that Helenius (Wilder's next opponent if reports are to be believed) is overrated because Kownacki "sucks", therefore if Wilder wins he will have only beaten an overrated guy who has only beaten a guy who "sucks". Kownacki also beat Szpilka and Washington before they were too far gone, so Wilder's current 5th and 6th best opponents beaten got blown out by a guy who "sucks", so they must "suck" to a considerably greater degree. It's ludicrous that you're trying to pretend this isn't a hatchet job on Wilder. Kownacki was effectively finished after the first loss to Helenius, he was sent into depression and has lost his confidence. With his style he needs confidence to an extreme degree, he can't be second guessing himself every time he gets hit. "Arreola was 38 when he fought Kownacki and in previous fights drew with Kassi" Arreola is a hot and cold fighter, like Stiverne, Helenius and Browne. He'll have a crap fight against a journeyman and then give a fringe contender a war. You persistently evade and fail to acknowledge certain uncomfortable facts: 1. Arreola broke the Compubox record and went the full 12 rounds, absorbing 369 punches 2. Arreola would go life and death with AJ-conqueror Ruiz 21 months later at 40, coming off a defeat The highly motivated and experienced Arreola who fought Kownacki was not physically shot in any way shape or form and still had his solid chin to boot. "Prime Arreola would of KO'd Kownacki inside 3 rounds" Laughable. Who are Arreola's best wins exactly? He's never beaten anyone as good as Kownacki, never mind inside 3 rounds. Power is the last thing to go and Arreola landed a vast amount of leather without effect. "Look at how they both did vs Helenius" "Styles make fights". Chisora had a better chin than Kownacki and Kownacki was more aggressive. Against a puncher like Helenius this was asking for trouble. Chisora, Whyte and Ruiz (throw in Parker) do not have the Helenius power. If they couldn't KO Kownacki (and they would struggle mightily, especially Ruiz and Parker) then his superior engine and volume would be a huge problem. Kownacki had great confidence in his chin when undefeated and huge mass, along with faster feet than Ruiz and more height and reach. All of these guys are on the same level and can beat each other on any given night.
I was talking about Duhaupas actually, the Washington loss came years later. Helenius was in a slump for ages, it didn't really end until 2020.
Seriously what's the hype over Ortiz beat no one lost to wilder twice after having him on ropes and not finishing the job struggled against bum Scott and Allen he ain't beat anyone of note at all Stiverne another bum won a belt against another bum done nothing of note at all in his career if he wasn't American he'd be fighting on ****ing channel 5 in York hall in UK lol Others I can see your point but tbf helenius has been up and down some fights he clearly came in out of shape but hopefully his two wins over the much favour kowinaki will give him confidence
If Ortiz "struggled" against Allen then what would you say Whyte did, considering Allen landed 4x as many punches on him and took him the full 10 comfortably, whereas Ortiz schooled and stopped Allen in 7? The "bum" that Stiverne beat twice comprehensively (and messed up badly) was one of Vitali's best opponents and top 10 ranked both times. There was nothing bummy about the performances either, Arreola came to win. Ortiz was a far better fighter than Helenius and the major advantage for Stiverne over Helenius was his excellent chin but unlike Duhaupas, he had big power to go with it.
Helenius is the Finnish David Price, has decent punching power but very poor stamina and is very chinny.
Helenius has a chance a real chance because Wilder is taken such horrible beating two times from gypsy king & is only 1 or 2 year younger than Helenius Wilder must be damage goods
but Helenius is washed up already years ago so is a question of how much can Wilder has left & mentally confidence is high with Helenius with two win over the fat Kownacki kid confidence can might be low on Wilder especially if Helenius can give him some tough rounds early
So Chisora and Whyte couldn't stop the Finnish David Price over 12 rounds apiece, in Whyte's case Helenius on a weeks' notice in Britain? Wow.
What's crazy about this is that a post prime, down and out and now rejuvenated Helenius would actually be Wilder's 2nd best win. That's pretty sad. Helenius was picked for a reason though, they have rounds of sparring with him, I also remember how he went on and on about how great Wilder was and how the sparring went. If Wilder isn't completely shattered (and he may be), he'll get the win his team is looking for
Helenius was so scared of Whyte's power that he was on the back foot whole fight and failed to engage losing every round. Whilst Helenius should of lost Chisora but poor judges score otherwise.
"Helenius would actually be Wilder's 2nd best win" You can make a credible case for anything between 3rd (after Ortiz x2) and 7th (after Stiverne 1, Duhaupas, Szpilka, Washington). Szpilka and Washington didn't have big power or granite chins and Kownacki KO'd both, so it's quite reasonable to rate Helenius above them. Stiverne 1 and Duhaupas however had granite and Stiverne (though short and no pressure fighter) had power on top of that. Helenius has got big power but no granite, so he's in Stiverne 1/Duhaupas territory.
Yet Whyte lacked the ability to cut the ring off and do any real damage to an unprepared, slow footed fighter with a very weak chin and very poor engine in your words, and got buzzed early for his troubles. Sounds like Whyte is a very shoddy pressure fighter. Chisora is better than Whyte at getting from A-B but embarrassingly couldn't put a dent in Helenius either and absorbed a lot of punishment, against a Helenius who sustained a fractured right arm during the fight. Also very poor against the Finnish Pricey.
Are you of the same opinion that you are for Whyte failing to stop Helenius as with Tyson Fury for failing top stop poorer opposition in Pianetta, Wallin and Johnson?
No and for these reasons: 1. The Pianeta (a former sparring partner) "fight" was a glorified sparring session, ring rusty Fury was getting rounds in for the Wilder fight. He also didn't want to look good in order to lull Wilder into a false sense of security. 2. Fury boxed on the backfoot for the first 6 rounds against Wallin and Wallin has never been dropped or stopped as a pro in 26 fights. For all we know he could be extremely durable, if Whyte hadn't ducked him we'd have more data. 3. Fury boxed on the backfoot for the full 12 rounds against prime Johnson, who was never in trouble against Vitali. Whyte was on the front foot the whole night against a "weak chinned, poor stamina, slow footed" Helenius, landed plenty of leather, swung for the bleachers and couldn't put a dent in him. If Whyte had schooled him on the backfoot and minimised damage taken that would have been a different story but Whyte lacks the skill and athleticism to box on the backfoot effectively.
