Where would Fury rank if...

Absolutely excellent point and I stand corrected. However, I do think a win over those lesser opponents means far less than a loss to them would mean.

 

If he managed to do all that and retire undefeated, there would be a case for him being top ten, although the resume would still be light enough that some would make the case for him being outside.

Unfortunately, these things have to do with timing and perception. Joshua is now busted, and Usyk, as great as he is, started at cruiser, so people would just say "he beat a busted guy and a cruiser."

Had he gotten to Joshua first, or even after the Pulev fight, the win would have more gravitas.

 

"As it is now he's probably along the same lines of a Riddick Bowe or a Vitali I'd say."

Both men had losses on the record and at least in Vitali's case had vastly inferior top wins. There's a case that a fresh Chisora is Vitali's best opponent beaten, whereas he may be as low as 7th and 8th on Fury's record (after Wlad, Wilder x2, Cunningham, Wallin, Whyte).

 

Whereas I liked your post and agree with a lot of what you said, I think it's time to stop saying his resume is shite. Wladdy, WidlerX2, Cunningham, Whyte, Wallin, ChisoraX2 is not shite. Kingpin and Hammer were also contenders when he beat them, and Pianeta is at least a name.

Its not murderer's row, but not shite.

 

I guess based on today's standards it's not as bad as shite (that might be too mean), but it's nothing impressive when looking at him through an all-time great historical lens. I know he can only face what's in front of him but an old Klitschko that's past his prime (outpointed him in a very boring fight), Wilder who has stamina issues and doesn't know how to box but has a bomb for a right hand, Cunningham who has 9 losses in his career, a past his prime Whyte who never really had elite skills to beat the truly top guys in his era, Wallin? Nothing impressive about him but Fury struggled against him lol. Chisora who has 12 losses in his career and has only beaten bums and lost to every good fighter he's ever faced. Kevin 'Kingpin' Johnson has 19 losses in his career, Hammer has 10 losses in his career.

Refs rigged it for Fury when he faced McDermott. He's been knocked on his ass multiple times throughout his career. Twice against Wilder the refs gave him a little too much time and he could've easily been counted out in those situations. Fury is a good fighter and has skills but I'm not impressed with his resume and historically I don't rate him that highly like some of his fanboys do.

 

Yeah, but even with all the subsequent losses, Cunningham, Johnson, Hammer and Chrisora were contenders when he faced them, and let's be honest that Chisora and Cunningham were robbed an awful lot.

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say, but it is the best resume in heavyweight boxing right now. Usyk has the best resume overall, but Fury the best heavyweight resume.

 

I respect your opinion. I don't want to crap on Fury too much, I do like his skills but I would love to see him finish his career by facing Usyk, Joshua and Joyce. He beats those 3 with no BS ref scoring and his ranking all-time will go up in my book.

 

If you fight people as great as Holyfield or Lewis your liable to lose to them.

And there is no case that Chisora is Vitalis best opponent.

Fury has 4 good wins atm. Wlad, Wilder, Whyte and Chisora. His resume is very thin.

 

Bowe and Vitali have three losses between them, Bowe one (former 190 pounder Holyfield) Vitali two (former LHW Byrd, final fight Lewis). Fury is undefeated despite fighting perhaps the two biggest punching heavyweight champions in history four times, who were both 6'5+ with 10+ consecutive defences. He did this away from home and as the B-side in every fight.

Of course there's a case for Chisora: he gave Vitali his toughest fight since Lewis almost 10 years prior. He won 2 rounds on the cards in Germany and went all 12, landing something like 160 punches to Vitali's 210. His toughness, determination, engine, strength and pressure fighting proficiency made him better than nearly all of Vitali's other opponents. In fact, Manny Steward rated Chisora as potentially one of Wlad's most dangerous challengers.

A strong case could also be made for Sanders. But he was knackered after 3 rounds and was slowing down badly after 1. He had chin problems in addition to the stamina problems, came in out of shape and inactive. I don't think he could have beaten Chisora at that stage of his career and he wasn't able to sustain the pressure long enough to potentially injure Vitali.

Equating Wlad and Wilder with Whyte and Chisora as "good wins" is dishonesty, as is omitting the fact that Fury had two wins over Wilder and Chisora, as is omitting 2x cruiser champ Cunningham and even Wallin, who Whyte blatantly ducked.

Fury's record doesn't contain as many 2nd rate fighters as Wlad's but it's stronger in terms of top wins, without the defeats and has more stylistic diversity than you'll find in heavyweight records before the Klitschko era.

 

Everyone one of those besides Usyk and Joshua are completely irrelevant.

Usyk, Joshua, Wlad, Wilder and Whyte would be a good resume, but the problem with fury is he ****ed around too much and missed out too many of his prime years.

We only got to see prime Fury in maybe 2/3 fights.

I'd say you could put him in the top 20 HW's of all time though, not top 10 though.

I do believe that if Fury hadn't had his mental issues and fought throughout 2015-2022 and trained well, he could have become a top 5 HW. He was insanely quick at one point.

But his issues let him down.

 

As I said, if you fight greats like Holyfield and Lewis your liable to lose to them.

Chisora isn't Furys or Vitalis best win, that's absolutely nonsense.

Sanders was good enough to destroy Furys best victory.

Fury does have 4 good wins, there's nothing dishonest about that. If you don't rate his victories over Wlad, Wilder, Whyte and Chisora that's on you, but boxing is a subjective sport and I think they're all noteworthy victories. You not classing them as good isn't necessarily something I'd call you dishonest for, I'd just disagree with you.

I don't really rate the Cunningham victory that much. His body of work at HW is essentially being robbed against a faded Adamek. Wallin, not sure why he's even being brought up tbh the guy is unranked.

Like I said, if Fury never fights again, he's around the Bowe/Vitali category of greatness.

 

Yes I agree with this fully.

I also think, given his mental issues, had he continued to fight he'd have probably lost to AJ and potentially some other people.

In terms of his career longevity, taking that time away from the sport has done him a world of good.

 

Because he beat up a fan friendly, formerly top prospect twice. That rejuvenated his career. You're right, there's probably a number of guys that beats him that he's piggy backed over.

Original question: He'll simply be considered the apex of a moderately weak era. I don't think anything Fury does is gonna have people (realistic people) saying he's a top 10 HW etc.........

 

Holyfield and Lewis are "greats" but Wlad isn't? Ditto for Wilder? Wins over Wlad and Wilder are "good", just as wins over Chisora and Whyte are "good"?

Yeah you're full of sh*t. If the Wlad and Wilder 2 wins weren't "great" then "great" wins don't exist.

Ruiz was good enough to destroy Joshua, McCall and Rahman were good enough to destroy Lewis. They avenged their defeats to these men but that does not necessarily make them close to their best victories. Vitali, Holyfield and Wlad were far better fighters than Ruiz, McCall and Rahman regardless. If Vitali's opponents were to fight each other in a round robin excluding Lewis and Byrd, a fresh Chisora likely comes out on top ahead of the Adamek's, Arreola's, Gomez's and Sanders. Chisora giving Vitali has toughest fight since Lewis also counts for something. He is arguably Vitali's best win and no one is clearly better on that record.

If Joshua had beaten Usyk and then Usyk had retired, Usyk's entire body of work at heavyweight would have consisted of beating a fighter with 9 losses in Chisora in a tough fight in Britain. Yet he would still be one of Joshua's best wins, if not his best. Cunningham's best win was probably his KO of Huck in Germany, who would go on to become a long-reigning cruiser champ, move up to heavyweight and lose a controversial decision to WBA regular champ Povetkin. Wallin needs the likes of Whyte to stop ducking him and if he can get them in the ring that win will probably appreciate significantly.

 

I’m a fan of Fury but you have to admit he only has one “great” win on his resume, and you can argue Vlad was close to his expiration date when they fought. I also get the feeling he has no interest in the Usyk fight (if Usyk beats AJ).

If Fury ducks Usyk, his legacy is diminished.

If he fights him and wins, his position as best HW of his era, is cemented.

If Usyk loses on a robbery decision be AJ and Fury fights and beats AJ, Fury’s legacy is still pretty good but somewhere in the middle.

Lots of if’s but Fury has to convincingly beat Usyk to cement his place in history, IMO. You can argue Usyk isn’t historically great but he’s probably the most talented HW at the moment and would propel Fury to historical levels in terms of legacy.

I think Usyk has a great shot at beating Fury if they fight, cementing his name in boxing history as the best HW of his (probably brief because he started late) era. As a fan, this is the fight I would pay to see.