Will Usyk vs Joshua be for the vacant lineal belt?

Not by Ring Magazine he wasn't

What about them?

Lineal will always be messy when there is a break, who decides who the 2 fighters are to fight for the vacant championship? Former champions have done this in the past. Who's ratings are considered? Are those two fighters the consensus two best etc. Because there are no set rules laid out it can become a very subjective matter. I agree that lineage is not something to get overly obsessed with, which is why I said "for me" in my original post in this thread

 

This linear stuff is a load of nonsense, in my opinion.

Fury began training again nearly two years after beating Klitschko and did so purely for fitness and emotional wellbeing (I dislike the term 'mental health').
It was stated that he had no intention of returning to the ring at that point but when he did come back, he claimed he was still the lineal champion...

As I mentioned elsewhere, I think once a lineal champion's period of inactivity is the same as that which would lead to a champion being stripped of his belt for inactivity then he should no longer be regarded as the lineal champion.

I think the lineal champion should also be the fighter who beat 'the man'.

In which case, there would be no such thing as a fight for the 'vacant lineal title' as neither fighter is 'the man'.

I think (and I might have said this elsewhere as well) it would have made more sense if:

1) Fury was stripped of his lineal title after not having fought for, say, a year.

2) Joshua was recognised as 'the man' after beating Klitschko.

3) Andy Ruiz Jr became the first lineal champion since Fury after beating Joshua because he had beaten 'the man'.

4) Joshua became the lineal champion for the first time when he beat Ruiz Jr in the rematch.

5) Usyk became the lineal champion after beating Joshua.

6) The fight on Saturday is for the lineal title currently held by Usyk.

 

MS PAINT may be a useful tool in illustrating the Lineal concept to boxing fans.

...imagine mma fans trying to figure it out .

 

Stripped by WHOM? What's with all this "STRIPPING" of a person's claim to the World Title?

Who is making these arbitrary deadlines? What authority do they have?

There is no LEAGUE in boxing. There is no President or Chairman over the sport. None of the fighers have pledged allegiance to anyone.

It's one guy making a fight with another guy. You beat the champion, you become the champion. It's a simple concept.

World Heavyweight Champions have gone years without people saying he was no longer the champion.

Jack Johnson went TWO years between his defense against Jeffries and his defense against Flynn. Jess Willard went THREE years between his defense against Moran and his defense against Dempsey. Jack Dempsey went THREE YEARS between his defense against Firpo and his defense against Tunney. Jim Braddock went TWO YEARS between winning the title against Baer and making his first defense against Louis. Joe Louis went FOUR YEARS between his defense against Simon and his defense Conn (in their return).

The only reason anyone pays attention to Ring or its ratings is, for the most part, they have stayed out of it.

Ring Magazine doesn't tell anyone who to fight. They don't make demands. They just keep track of who is champ and who they believe the top contenders are. They have no authority in the sport at all. They can't tell anyone to do anything.

But, in recent years, they've been overstepping. And this is would be A HUGE overstep.

Everyone knows Fury is going to fight again. He fought three months ago. If he announces he's fighting again next week, and he keeps his WBC belt, and he defends it a second time later this year ... what's the Ring's rationale for claiming Fury is no longer the WORLD Champion?

Is it because Fury LIED when one of their writers asked him if he was fighting again?

Are you no longer the World Heavyweight Champion if a lie to a boxing writer? Is that the threshold now?

**** that.

Tyson Fury made a defense three months ago. Fury's fought twice since Usyk and Joshua last fought. Fury's in the gym RIGHT NOW. He's one of the most active heavyweights RIGHT NOW.

He's the heavyweight champion of the world until someone beats him. And he just fought a couple months ago.

Would you be clamoring for Usyk to be stripped if he didn't fight in the next 30 days? Because that would make a whole YEAR since he last fought.


Quit thinking like a sanctioning bodies.

 

The Ring didn't strip Fury, Fury vacated their belt

 

No. Tom Gray (from Ring Magazine) called Tyson Fury five days ago and said are you fighting again? And he said "No. It was fun while it lasted."

https://www.ringtv.com/642844-tyson-fury-vacates-ring-heavyweight-championship/

And if Tom Gray calls him next week and ask if he's fighting again, Fury will say, "Yes, I'm fighting (fill in name of the person who wins Saturday night)."

And EVERYONE knows it.

A little common sense goes a long way.

Why Tom Gray and the rest of Ring Magazine have this desperate need to replace Fury basically a WEEK after they called him is beyond me.

A week?

What could possibly go wrong?

Muhammad Ali actually called a press conference in Malaysia in the summer of 1975 and announced to the press he was retiring. And Muhammad Ali called a press conference in Turkey in October 1976 and announced to the press he was retiring. Guess who didn't say the title was vacant either time? Ring Magazine. Why? Because, like Fury, Ali said he was retiring all the time.

Fury was just offering a fight to Chisora a goddamn week ago. He was posting videos yesterday showing how he'd beat Usyk.

RING needs to get out of its own way.

 

The lineage has been murky for over 4 decades now, and this thread shows exactly why.
Retirements/unretirements
The start of a new lineage, did it really and what if the previous one comes back shortly after?
#1 and #2 don't fight eachother for many years or at all due to various reasons.
Debate over who actually are the #1 and #2 at the time.
Having multiple outlets disagreeing who the lineal champion actually is, or there even being one.
Having an undisputed and lineal champion at the same time.

All this makes it basically irrelevant. It's as pure as your run of the mill WBA strap nowadays.
But to answer the question, just after retirement of the consensus previous one the current consensus #1 and #2 collide. That would technically start a new lineage, as far as that's relevant.

 

From the quoted article:
On Saturday morning I reached out to Tyson Fury for confirmation that he was vacating his Ring heavyweight championship and he answered in the affirmative.

If you are calling Tom Gray a liar or you have an issue with his statement you will need to take it up from him. As far as Tom Gray & The Ring is concerned, Fury vacated the belt. Again if you have an issue take it up with those at The Ring.

As to why The Ring wanted clarification on if Fury was retired & vacating their belt I can only speculate that because they are a publication/ business they wanted to attach their product to the big upcoming fight between their #1 & #2 ranked contenders to crown a new champion of their belt

 

Murky for the last four decades?

From Floyd Patterson to Lennox Lewis, there was nothing "murky." It's a pretty straight line.

The only people who screwed up the lineage were the Klitschkos because they were two dominant heavyweights for years and they refused to fight each other ... and the others who screwed up were Ring Magazine, who named one Klitschko the champ and then another Klitschko the champ when each Klitschko was rated #1 but neither faced the #2 contender.

Eventually, Wlad faced two #1 contenders in Povetkin and Pulev (back to back), which removed all doubt who was the linearl champ. (Wlad had been dominant for a decade prior to that).

But the Ring really screwed up again when they stopped recognizing Tyson Fury as World Champion MONTHS before Fury returned to the ring and became the most active heavyweight in 2018. He started 2018 as the World Champion. Ended 2018 with three more fights under his belt, no losses, and he was only rated #1.

Then they named Fury Ring champion again after beating Wilder in the rematch.

Now they no longer recognize Fury again, because they don't seem to understand Fury is waiting to find out who wins Saturday before announcing who he wants to fight next.

Ring has named Vitali, Wlad, Fury and Fury again as the World champ ... and Vitali, Fury and Fury again never lost a fight. People keep losing Ring belts because RING keeps awarding them to new people without the last guy losing it.

If they do it this time, it's really going to blow up in their faces. Because Fury is likely to fight again this year.

They are becoming as worthless as the sanctioning bodies are.

My advice to anyone who writes for Ring Magazine is to just stay out of the way. You don't need to name a new champion "because you don't get the joke."

 

I didn't call him a liar. I said you don't say a guy is no longer the World Champion because he lies about whether he's retired.

Tyson Fury has retired more times than we can count. He made a defense a few months ago. He offered a title fight to Chisora LAST WEEK. Five days ago Tom Gray calls Fury as asks if he's retired and Fury says yes, so they VACATE the title and want to name a new champ eight days later?

WTF is that? Tyson Fury could change his mind again tomorrow. Or next week.

He's not the World Champion anymore because Tom Gray can't tell the champion who retires all the time but is actually in the gym training and posting videos every day is going to change his mind again?

Screw that. Their job isn't to be active participants. They are to report on the participants.

 

The lineal belt means nothing, who gives a ****?

The fact that Fury was able to retire for 3 years and still keep it is ridiculous.

 

See that's the point, what about them. All 3 started a lineage without a 1v2 matchup

 

So Usyk-Joshua II ends in a controversial draw and Fury announces next week he's decided who he is going to defend his WBC/World title next against (fill in the blank) in December.

Are you saying Fury isn't the World Champion and there is no champion because Joshua-Usyk was supposed to start a new lineage and it ended in a tie?

Good luck with that.

Hell, Anthony Joshua already said (even if he beat Usyk) he wouldn't consider himself the lineal champion unless he beats Fury.

The Ring can't even get one of the guys they want to give their belt to to go along with them.

Everyone knows Fury is fighting again, except, apparently, Tom Gray at Ring.