usyk vs muhammad ali

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Juan carlos, Aug 20, 2022.

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Ali va usyk

  1. Usyk k.o

    13 vote(s)
    8.9%
  2. Usyk u.d

    44 vote(s)
    30.1%
  3. Ali u.d

    65 vote(s)
    44.5%
  4. Ali k.o

    24 vote(s)
    16.4%
  1. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    "Ali was a "punchbag""

    Ali's Compubox stats throughout his career suggest his defence was severely lacking. You can also watch his fights: he was a big athletic guy relative to his era who didn't rely on being technically sound defensively and he got hit a lot as a result.

    "Ali never threw a body punch in his life."

    This is generally true. Same with the Klitschko's, same with Lewis. Ali was not a prolific body puncher.

    "Ali "went life & death" with Mildenberger."

    Prime Ali was so fast but 60's Euro level Mildenberger was able to land 144 shots over 12 rounds, with Ali only able to land 154 in return. Ironically, the featherfisted 195 pounder also hurt Ali with a body shot. Excluding KD rounds, the judges gave Mildenberger 2-3 rounds to Ali's 3-5. Had Mildenberger not been chinny it's already a closer fight on the scorecards. Had Mildenberger had Usyk's long list of advantages, Ali gets washed and stopped.

    "being unjust to either great fighter"

    It's not "unjust" to state the obvious fact that Ali would have no real chance against Usyk. Ali belongs to a totally different timeframe where it's ludicrous to compare.
     
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  2. Hanz Cholo

    Hanz Cholo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali for the nostalgia.
    Plus resume… we see how Usyk wraps up his career
     
  3. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    Going life and death with Wlad (who would have KO'd Ali cold with a left hook that would have made Frazier's seem middleweight-esque) isn't nearly as bad as going life and death with Doug Jones, Henry Cooper and Karl Mildenberger. The media hype machine means nothing to me.
     
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  4. Pimp C

    Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

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    This is the same type of dumb overzealous **** we saw with loma when after a win he beats atgs like pea Duran pbf all at 135 which is equally ridiculous as this. Usyk is a very talented boxer but his resume isn't good enough for me to pick him over a top 3 p4p atg and the best hw ever who's lightyears more proven and accomplished at the weight. If you think usyk beats Ali based on him beating a stiff like Aj then so be it but you don't know **** about boxing and are nothing more than an overzealous fanboi posting behind an alt. Usyk has done nothing at hw to make me think he beats ali there, nothing.
     
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  5. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    You are overly emotional on this topic. Ali was a great fighter in his era 50 plus years ago but he'd simply get washed by top fighters today. This will be my final word to you on the subject as you're incapable of seeing past hype or using reason.

    1966 Ali vs 2018 Usyk

    Ali: 24 years old, started boxing age 12, 88 confirmed amateur bouts with a record of 80-8 (3 rounders, 247 rounds max) 25 pro (144 rounds contested) stopped 9 pro opponents who were 197+ lbs

    Usyk: 31 years old, started boxing age 15, 350 amateur bouts with a record of 335-15 (3-4 rounders, 1076-1332 rounds max) 6 WSB (25 rounds contested) 14 pro (105 rounds contested) stopped 11 WSB/pro opponents who were 197+ lbs (pre-rehydration)

    Ali had been knocked down from head shots twice in the previous 15 fights/4.5 years (Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper) hadn’t fought a southpaw in 6 years, had lost to at least two southpaws in the amateurs (Kent Green by KO, Amos Johnson by SD) and 2013 Usyk was heavier than 20/25 of Ali’s pre-Mildenberger opponents, as well as 8 lbs heavier than 1966 Ali.

    1966 Ali went life and death with European champion southpaw Mildenberger over 12 rounds (154-144 punches landed out of 612-538 thrown according to Compubox) who was 6’1.5 with a 73 inch reach, 195 lbs, had been KO’d twice, registered a 31% KO ratio with 0 KO’s in his previous 5 fights and had a 52-12 amateur record, with winning the German LHW championship being his best amateur accomplishment.

    Usyk has studied Ali extensively and has modern advantages in terms of training and "nutrition", as well as a tougher upbringing in post-Soviet Ukraine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2022
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  6. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
  7. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's Ali UD
     
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Your posts are so painful to read.

    They’re so cringeworthy.

    In the past few weeks, you’ve proven to be one of the biggest jokes on the forum.

    I can only hope for your own sake that you’re trolling.

    Tell us again how Chisora would have beaten his fair share of prime ATG HW’s.
     
  9. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    dance jab hold
    dance jab hold

    I often ask what would have happened if Ali and Frazier were the same size.
     
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  10. DJN16

    DJN16 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    First page off this thread is hit your head off a wall material.

    No respect being shown to either fighter.

    Won't bother reading the rest.
     
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  11. VOXDEI

    VOXDEI Active Member Full Member

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    You are right, ridiculous matchup.

    Usyk would school Ali.
     
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  12. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    I've already given you the link:

    [url]http://beta.compuboxdata.com/fighter[/url]

    Look up Ali's Boxrec for the scoring. The judges scored 2-3 of the 11 contested rounds to Mildenberger and gave 3-5 of the non-KD rounds to Ali, with the rest even.

    Ali never fought anyone with the combination of size, athleticism and skill of AJ, let alone beat him by at least 8-4 by consensus twice with the A-side politics and money against him. So any hypothesising about how Ali would fare against modern elite SHW's is null.

    Usyk landed 35% of his 905 punches thrown over 12 rounds against fast, agile cruiserweight (big 70's HW) Hunter. Ali landed 25% of his 612 punches thrown over 11.5 rounds against 60's Euro champ Mildenberger.

    I never claimed that Ali never landed a body punch, that was someone's hyperbole in the thread. But as a rule, Ali barely threw body shots. I can find testimony from various informed sources which state that Ali did not often go to the body.

    Ali was hurt with a liver punch from Mildenberger, you can look it up for yourself or better yet watch the fight. 154-144 over 12 against a 60's Euro champ southpaw is life and death in my view and especially relative to the hype that Ali receives: "x modern fighter couldn't touch prime Ali". Yet Mildenberger, Henry Cooper and Doug Jones had no problems landing their shots.

    I'm sure you can bend over backwards to hypothesise about advantages the old swimmers have over Phelps but they don't trump Phelps' advantages as objective measurements show. There is no equivalence between suggesting that swimmers from 50-60 years were faster and stating that Phelps is faster. One is right and the other is wrong, you're engaging in the fallacy of "moderation".

    You are an Ali fanatic who claimed that the Mildenberger Ali would "have a good chance" against Usyk "without knowing anything about Usyk", despite Usyk's vast list of objective advantages over Ali and Mildenberger.
     
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  13. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So Usyk is the GOAT heavyweight now? What a croc.
     
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  14. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    :facepalm:

    What is Usyk's HW resume? Chisora, Witherspoon and Joshua.

    At least wait until Usyk has fought someone anywhere close to Ali quality before making such **** posts.
     
  15. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    Ali stops Usyk.
     
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