Classic: Rate the apparent credibility of these resources on training and nutrition

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Aug 25, 2022.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Imagine: You're locked in a heated debate about boxing history. Your opponent makes a claim about training that seems weird. It might be about nutrition, or about the value of long distance running, or weight training, or sports psychology, etc.

    You demand to know where he got this odd-sounding claim. He responds by citing a source.

    We've all been there. And we all realize that some sources are considered more reliable than others.

    Here's your chance to rank a few of them, as an experiment.

    The following is a list of real books written by real people about strength & conditioning, nutrition, and similar topics. Using only the descriptions I provide, rate how credible each one sounds on a scale from 1 to 5, with 5 being "That sounds really credible," and 1 being "GTFO with that clownish junk science."

    The list is as follows:

    * "The Martial Arts Athlete," by Tom Seabourne. Written by an AAU taekwondo champion and silver medalist at the world taekwondo championships. He also holds a PhD in sport psychology. Discusses abdominal and back strengthening, weight training, plyometrics, sport psychology (meditation, pain management, relaxation, focus, etc.)

    * "Box Like The Pros," by Joe Frazier and William Dettloff from Ring Magazine. Discusses boxing technique, sparring, various training tools like heavy bags, and provides conditioning programs from Frazier's days as a pro, including one that lays out your entire week.

    * "Martial Arts Nutrition," by Teri Tom. Tom holds a MS in nutrition; she was the nutritionist for Pacquiao, Andrei Arlovski, and Amir Khan (working under Roach.) Gives an overview of energy systems, what to eat, and what times/proportions to eat it in for optimal performance. Includes detailed meal planning system.

    * "Coaching Olympic Style Boxing," by USA Boxing. There are actually two versions of this: one written in the 90s/2000s, and a more recent one available as a PDF through the organization's website. Has sections on injuries, nutrition, hygiene, sport psychology, boxing skills, weight training, cardio, plyometricd, stretching, etc.

    * "Ringside & Training Principles," (edited) by Margaret Goodman et al. Goodman is a doctor who at the time was working (I believe) for the Nevada State Athletic Commission. The chapters themselves are written by boxing trainers and boxers. I think Sugar Ray Leonard contributed a chapter, but the most prominent for our purposes would've been a chapter on conditioning boxers from Mackie Shilstone, who bulked up RJJ and Spinks.

    * "Toughness Training for Sports," by James Loehr. Loehr worked in the field of sport psychology (although his doctorate is an Ed.D.) In addition to working with other athletes, Loehr apparently did some work -- which was appreciated and credited -- with Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini. The book itself is about various ways to build mental fortitude and increase motivation in athletes.

    * Sanford Berman's vinyl records on self-hypnosis to improve performance. Berman held a doctorate in speech & communication; he was also a stage hypnotist. Norton used him to improve Norton's performance against Ali and others. Norton vacillated on how helpful the hypnosis was -- he credited Berman in the press, but later claimed it was all a lie for publicity -- and then lost a defamation lawsuit to Berman, and admitted again that Berman had actually helped him after all. Messy business all round.

    * "The Fighter's Kitchen," Chris Algieri. Professional boxer who holds a master's degree in a sports science field. Writes about nutrition, and gives some recipes to follow.

    * "Bare Essentials Guide for Martial Arts Injury Care & Prevention," Trish Bare Grounds. Essentially what it says on the tin. Stretching, first aid, wrapping hands & feet and other precautions, a little bit about weight training to reduce the risk of injury, importance of hydration, etc. The author holds a doctorate in sports medicine / athletic training and was the medical coordinator for the US taekwondo team.

    * "The Ultimate Guide to Preventing & Treating MMA Injuries," by Jonathan Gelber. Gerber is, IIRC, the main doctor on call for UFC fights. He also includes in this numerous interviews about injuries and their prevention from various UFC fighters, drawing on their professional experience to supplement the medical advice.

    * "Ultimate Stretching," Sang H. Kim. Just about stretching & flexibility. Another guy with a sports science doctorate and a former taekwondo competitor from Korea. However, his other material mentions a few more mystical things, like meridians and such. (Although this doesn't appear in his work on stretching, which cites to scientific articles and such if I remember correctly.)

    * ISST manual. Written by Fred Hatfield, and required reading for the ISST personal training certification, an organization Hatfield founded. Hatfield was a fairly well known and successful powerlifter with a doctorate in sports science (they called him "Dr. Squat") who conditioned Holyfield for the Tyson fight. Covers basically all aspects of training and conditioning, from weight training nutrition.

    * "Basic Boxing Skills," Floyd Patterson. Former heavyweight champion and Olympic gold medalist, working with Sugar. Explains basic boxing skills, and also has conditioning including calisthenics, running, medicine ball work, punching bags, etc.




    Rate 'em from 1 to 5 in terms of how credible they sound as applied to an issue related to boxing training & conditioning. This is just about first impressions, so if you've never heard of any of these, that's fine. Rate how credible they sound on first glance from their descriptions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2022
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  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    There's enough bull**** by people who should know better, I couldn't say without seeing the contents


    Joel Seedman is a PhD that trains professional athletes. About as credible as sources get, until you see the fruits borne by the tree
    https://youtube.com/shorts/y2eCBgBhcaw?feature=share
     
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  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's all bull****, what you need is plenty of water and your five basic foodgroups: Whisky, sausages, curry, tea, fish. All that vitamins and minerals bull**** is a con perpetrated by the Italian Fascists.
     
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  4. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    PhD
    yeah
    whatever
     
  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    You forgot steak and beer!
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Cheat day bro.
     
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  7. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Honestly I'm pretty sure for large parts of Scotland the 5 basic foodgroups are:
    Whisky
    Beer
    Buckfast
    Heroin
    Cigarettes
     
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  8. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    Geez cross is it Christmas? Great thread! Some awesome information I'll be sure to check out.
     
  9. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    Shizzle, never read any of them. Good idea though I will say the best book on boxing has a much less “credible” writer then say the HW champion. “Boxing” by Edwin Hasilet.
     
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  10. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I have it on good authority that greynotsoold might agree with you. Mike Gibbons' books "How to Train" and "How to Box" are pretty good too.
     
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  11. sasto

    sasto Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Kind of funny that all the books emphasizing nutrition are from guys who were famously small. Manny Pacquiao's nutritionist was probably spending his time thinking about how to help him eat more rice at the weigh in so he wasn't so small he fell through the floor cracks.

    Not really what most readers are looking for.
     
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  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Ha! Yes, although Pacquiao's trainer also worked with Andrei Arlovski, who was a UFC heavyweight champion. A lot of the advice seems to be applicable across weights.
     
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  13. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    Mm. I don’t know I always felt like he was massive at the beginning he was so much bigger then the guys he fought early on. Later it felt like he had settled into his real weight class area due to a combination of better nutrition and age.
     
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  14. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    Just from what he’s said there are some gems in the Gibbons books. Im just I think too stupid to apply it. Yet. Lol
     
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  15. sasto

    sasto Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He didn't have that big money nutritionist then though, and he got some bad results and missed weight too.